Disputing a penalty fare

[Grizzler]

Hello guys,

A week ago I was taking the train to Reading from Wokingham, but the ticketmachine outside the station did not accept my card, and I only had two 50£ notes on me, and I thought it would either take forever to give me change or that it would not accept it.

So I went around and was going to the ticketoffice, but the door would not open. This was around ca 13:47, I looked inside and there was no other people there either (no passengers, it did not look like the ticketoffice had their blinds open, but it was kind of hard to tell). Anyway, I waved at the sensor but it still would not open.

So I thought I would just buy the ticket at excess fair booth in Reading.
Ofcourse there was a inspector (I think?) and he did not believe it was closed and handled me a penalty fare of 20£ which I paid on the spot, but said I would dispute it.

Now my question is, I am allowed to dispute it yes without any consequences? Its not like they will charge me anything extra if they say no?

 

[fowler9]

Hello guys,

A week ago I was taking the train to Reading from Wokingham, but the ticketmachine outside the station did not accept my card, and I only had two 50£ notes on me, and I thought it would either take forever to give me change or that it would not accept it.

So I went around and was going to the ticketoffice, but the door would not open. This was around ca 13:47, I looked inside and there was no other people there either (no passengers, it did not look like the ticketoffice had their blinds open, but it was kind of hard to tell). Anyway, I waved at the sensor but it still would not open.

So I thought I would just buy the ticket at excess fair booth in Reading.
Ofcourse there was a inspector (I think?) and he did not believe it was closed and handled me a penalty fare of 20£ which I paid on the spot, but said I would dispute it.

Now my question is, I am allowed to dispute it yes without any consequences? Its not like they will charge me anything extra if they say no?

You paid what you were told to pay. No one should charge you again for disputing it.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You've paid the Penalty Fare, so you shouldn't receive any further administrative penalties. These are normally applied for late payment.

You need to appeal using the procedure shown on your Penalty Fare form.

Wokingham office should have been open, but it is operated by South West Trains so he might not have known about issues. You'll need to prove the issues though.

 

[Yew]

Do any TVM's accept £50s?

 

[Deerfold]

Do any TVM's accept £50s?

I've not seen any Northern ones that even take £20s.

 

[fowler9]

I've not seen any Northern ones that even take £20s.

Not surprised. It's been a while since I saw a £20 anyway.

 

[MyFriendMary]

I've not seen any Northern ones that even take £20s.

Most don't unless the change they must dispense is under a certain amount.

I.e. £17 ticket with a £20 would work. A £5.50 ticket with a £20 wouldn't

 

[Deerfold]

Not surprised. It's been a while since I saw a £20 anyway.

Really? It's the most common note I get from cash machines.

Most don't unless the change they must dispense is under a certain amount.

I.e. £17 ticket with a £20 would work. A £5.50 ticket with a £20 wouldn't

The Northern ones won't take a £20 note whatever the fare - even if it's £20 (certainly at Keighley, Leeds and Bradford).

 

[Nick W]

Presumably the OP simply has to send a letter to the train company asking what to do if the ticket office is shut and he has nothing of less value than a £50 note.

Then when the reply is in his favour, appeal using that.

 

[455driver]

Presumably the OP simply has to send a letter to the train company asking what to do if the ticket office is shut and he has nothing of less value than a £50 note.

They will probably tell him to make sure he has smaller notes/ some change on him!

Yes I know this has no legal standing.

Then when the reply is in his favour, appeal using that.

If the reply is favourable.

Lets be honest here, how many of us find ourselves with just some £50 notes on us?
I cant remember the last time I saw a £50 note.

 

[fowler9]

They will probably tell him to make sure he has smaller notes/ some change on him!

Yes I know this has no legal standing.


If the reply is favourable.

Lets be honest here, how many of us find ourselves with just some £50 notes on us?
I cant remember the last time I saw a £50 note.

I remember the last time I had a £50 because it was the only time I've ever had one. We got one as a bonus in work and they wouldn't accept them in the works bar that evening. Ha ha.

 

[reb0118]

Someone paid me with a £100 note the other day. As the fare was over £130 I didn't bat an eyelid.

 

[fowler9]

Someone paid me with a £100 note the other day. As the fare was over £130 I didn't bat an eyelid.

I hope you asked for an autograph!

 

[TEW]

Lets be honest here, how many of us find ourselves with just some £50 notes on us?
I cant remember the last time I saw a £50 note.

They were surprisingly common when I worked in Sainsbury's. Mainly get them from foreign tourists but you did get British people using them occasionally.

 

[Deerfold]

They were surprisingly common when I worked in Sainsbury's. Mainly get them from foreign tourists but you did get British people using them occasionally.

The first time I went to Europe after the Euro came in, I turned up with only 200 euro notes. It wasn't until I went to buy a Metro ticket that it dawned on me I had a wallet of £130 notes (at the time). Wasn't impressed with the bureau de change which changed them for me.


My dad used to get a £50 note every week from the same customer (a reasonably well known soap actor) for a £10 spend throughout the nineties but only got a couple a year from anyone else.

 

[yorkie]

Hello guys,

A week ago I was taking the train to Reading from Wokingham, but the ticketmachine outside the station did not accept my card

Did you ever establish why not?

and I only had two 50£ notes on me, and I thought it would either take forever to give me change or that it would not accept it.

It would have been advisable to try (but you're probably right).

So I went around and was going to the ticketoffice, but the door would not open. This was around ca 13:47, I looked inside and there was no other people there either (no passengers, it did not look like the ticketoffice had their blinds open, but it was kind of hard to tell). Anyway, I waved at the sensor but it still would not open.

Did you try the help point?

So I thought I would just buy the ticket at excess fair booth in Reading.

You do realise that some people in the rail industry treat passengers not as customers, but as guilty until proven wrong? The chances of encountering such suspicion are greatly increased in Penalty Fare areas.

Ofcourse there was a inspector (I think?) and he did not believe it was closed and handled me a penalty fare of 20£ which I paid on the spot, but said I would dispute it.

Did the inspector not attempt to contact the station?

Problem is, the station is managed by SWT, and I am guessing you were stopped by an FGW RPI.

That makes it tricky, as your dispute is with FGW, but it was SWT who made it difficult for you to purchase your ticket

Now my question is, I am allowed to dispute it yes without any consequences? Its not like they will charge me anything extra if they say no?

Yes, dispute it by following the instructions provided, but I'd additionally write to:
- SWT customer services, to discuss the matter of the ticket office being shut (much harder after the event!). If they deny knowledge of it, you could enquire as to how many staff would have been on duty and if it's likely they'd have been on a lunch break at that time
- FGW customer services, to complain about the 'guilty until proven innocent' treatment you received
- Passenger Focus (if it's not resolved very promptly)

You could also write to the DfT stating that the Penalty Fare scheme is being misused by FGW and asking if FGW's scheme can be investigated.

Next time, do more to 'cover your back' such as using help points etc.

 

[transmanche]

They will probably tell him to make sure he has smaller notes/ some change on him!

Yes I know this has no legal standing.

There are plenty of places that won't accept £50 notes at all.

 

[fowler9]

There are plenty of places that won't accept £50 notes at all.

My old employers bar for example! Ha ha.

 

[Nick W]

Lets be honest here, how many of us find ourselves with just some £50 notes on us?
I cant remember the last time I saw a £50 note.

I saw two recently, but have never possessed one. If someone has them, one of two things must be true:

• They have been to a currency exchange.

• They have been trading with drugs.

It is fairly common to see them at university with international students, for the former (I at least believe).

So when we go to US or Europe (or other countries) and casually hand over a $100 or €100 note, I guess they must find it as weird as if someone gave us a £50 note.

They will probably tell him to make sure he has smaller notes/ some change on him!

I hope not, but it's unfortunately possible.

 

[Clip]

Lets be honest here, how many of us find ourselves with just some £50 notes on us?
I cant remember the last time I saw a £50 note.

i had about a grands worth only the other day in me hand.











Admittedly they didnt belong to me

 

[MarlowDonkey]

So when we go to US or Europe (or other countries) and casually hand over a $100 or €100 note, I guess they must find it as weird as if someone gave us a £50 note..

Cash machines in Europe have an annoying habit of giving you 50 Euro notes. Although more common as a consequence, I don't think they are particular popular as a means of settling a 5 Euro bill. To get round this, ask for an amount, say 80 or 130 Euros that guarantees some smaller notes.

I'm not aware of any cash machines dispensing £ 50 notes in the UK, which must account for their relative rarity in common use.

 

[maniacmartin]

My grandparents always used to give me birthday money as a 50 note, as I think they thought it looked more special. Presumably they specifically asked for them at the bank.

Why do currency exchanges love such large denominations anyway?

 

[transmanche]

Why do currency exchanges love such large denominations anyway?

Saves space in the 'stock room'...

 

[paddington]

So when we go to US or Europe (or other countries) and casually hand over a $100 or €100 note, I guess they must find it as weird as if someone gave us a £50 note.

This varies between different Eurozone countries. In Spain if the amount due is less than €20 then I have had annoyed looks if I presented a €50, though it was still accepted. I didn't dare to spend €100s. Similar in France outside Paris, though I paid my hotel bill with €100s and they were accepted without question.

Cash machines in Europe have an annoying habit of giving you 50 Euro notes. Although more common as a consequence, I don't think they are particular popular as a means of settling a 5 Euro bill.

In Germany I have used a €100 to buy a €5 snack at a Christmas market. I did this primarily because I wanted to break up the €100, as I had many of them on me. I have also had no trouble breaking up CHF100 notes in Switzerland to buy a bottle of juice (which did not cost that much, despite the reputation of CH being expensive!)

Why do currency exchanges love such large denominations anyway?

Saves space in the 'stock room'...

Don't know if this is the whole story. However, in many parts of Asia, you will get better rates for changing US$100 bills compared to $5, or even $50. The cleanliness of the bill and the number of folds can also affect the rate that you will be offered - which is basically the interbank rate if you have pristine unfolded $100s fresh from the press.

 

[DeeGee]

In Germany I have used a €100 to buy a €5 snack at a Christmas market. I did this primarily because I wanted to break up the €100, as I had many of them on me. I have also had no trouble breaking up CHF100 notes in Switzerland to buy a bottle of juice (which did not cost that much, despite the reputation of CH being expensive!)

Not sure about Switzerland, but in Germany cash is still very much king.

Consequently many Germans are in possession of amounts of cash that we in Britain would find shocking, in a whole range of different denominations.

 

[broadgage]

I once had only had £50 notes on me, and a little small change.
I could not find a link cash machine in working order so used an American Express ATM, in the Strand, London.

To my suprise, the requested £250 was dispensed as five notes each £50. I dont think that I have ever received £50 notes from a cash machine before.

 

[Grizzler]

Did you ever establish why not?

I assume they were out for a break or something, but I find it weird that they closed the whole station if that is the case in the middle of the day..

Did you try the help point?

No I did not

You do realise that some people in the rail industry treat passengers not as customers, but as guilty until proven wrong? The chances of encountering such suspicion are greatly increased in Penalty Fare areas.

Well, I don't see how they think I would genuinely get away with not having a ticket in Reading, there is no way to pass the booths unless you have one or wait until.. 10pm.

Did the inspector not attempt to contact the station?

He said he had contact with them that morning. Which I replied that, that was this morning, if you call them now you can know if they are there or not. But he didn't do it

Problem is, the station is managed by SWT, and I am guessing you were stopped by an FGW RPI.

Yes, I believe it was a FGW guy

That makes it tricky, as your dispute is with FGW, but it was SWT who made it difficult for you to purchase your ticket

Yes, dispute it by following the instructions provided, but I'd additionally write to:
- SWT customer services, to discuss the matter of the ticket office being shut (much harder after the event!). If they deny knowledge of it, you could enquire as to how many staff would have been on duty and if it's likely they'd have been on a lunch break at that time
- FGW customer services, to complain about the 'guilty until proven innocent' treatment you received
- Passenger Focus (if it's not resolved very promptly)

You could also write to the DfT stating that the Penalty Fare scheme is being misused by FGW and asking if FGW's scheme can be investigated.

What do you mean by the last part there? Because they think I'm guilty before they check the circumstances?

Next time, do more to 'cover your back' such as using help points etc.

I'll try, first penalty fare ever (Ive only lived in the UK since October though!).

It was "only" 20£, which would be about 17£ more than the fare (got gold ticket discount), but still very annoying and that they have that registered in their systems it not that fun either.

I'll write to them this weekend I think.

Kind of off-topic: In Norway where I'm from, it is not unusual to carry 50£ (500 kr) notes at all, and 1000 (100£) notes are not that uncommon either. So I found it really surprising that the 50£ was the biggest note you can get here unless you go to Scotland. If people win big at betting shops/casino for example, it's kind of annoying to carry a bunch of 20£ notes..

 

[jon0844]

If people win big at betting shops/casino for example, it's kind of annoying to carry a bunch of 20£ notes..

I have a foolproof system for that. I never win...

 

[Deerfold]

If people win big at betting shops/casino for example, it's kind of annoying to carry a bunch of 20£ notes..

Top of my list of people to feel sorry for...

 

[fowler9]

I have a foolproof system for that. I never win...

Ha ha. If there was a like button I'd use it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Top of my list of people to feel sorry for...

Another like for this. Ha ha.