Disproportionate behaviour by great western rail

[Dai Corner]

It's worth remembering that the Government pays the costs of the passenger railway* and receives the revenue and that the former far exceeds the latter. A penalty fare could be likened to a speeding ticket or one for dropping litter. I can't think of another public service compensates users for underperformance.

* Open Access operators excepted.

 

[RPI]

It surprises me that there weren't checks on the exit. It would be normal practice when there is such an event (eg Weston Carnival, Glastonbury, events at the Principality Stadium (operated by TfW) ) for there to be an absolute block at the exit to ensure that everyone leaving the station has a ticket. Indeed, every year we see a couple of cases of people who arrive at Castle Cary (for Glastonbury) only to find that they are picked up for not having a ticket.

If it was airshow day then there was a full block in operation.

 

[Belperpete]

The whole point is that she wasn't trying to avoid paying. She always pays when she can. She was surprised by harshness of the response (as was I).

Your statement that she only pays when she can does not look good. I hope that you didn't say that to GWR.

I suspect that the harshness of the response may in part be due to it having been an airshow day, when they would likely have been expecting a high level of attempted fare evasion, which is why the police were there. No doubt there will have been plenty of people who were hoping to get away without buying a ticket who will suddenly have decided to buy one when they saw the revenue checks and the police - and your daughter will have appeared no different. The best way not to be treated as a fare dodger is not to behave like one.

Not buying a ticket because you don't have time is little different to driving away without paying for your petrol because you didn't have time. Neither is acceptable.

 

[LAX54]

I think you’re misguided. Your daughter broke the law. She had the opportunity to buy a ticket before she travelled - as the law requires - but chose not to

If she had taken her day in court, she would have lost

And a vastly bigger payment !

 

[disappointed]

If it was airshow day then there was a full block in operation.

There would probably have been checks on the exit there for such a large event, and that is why the British Transport Police would have been there and assisted with the ticketless traveller.

They were doing random checks on the main exit. Almost everyone was walking straight out. There are a bunch of other exits to the station which are quite simple to use. She didn't because she is honest and just wanted to buy a ticket in the normal way.
She was caught in an honest mistake and was subjected to absolutely terrible customer service. She wasn't trying to save money (she has plenty of money), or scam the system (she just wouldn't bother).
Or, in the name of balance, for the people who believe that the rail industry treats its customers with respect and would never do anything wrong (Please look at https://x.com/railukforums) she is a criminal mastermind bent on tearing society apart by getting free journeys and we were all saved by the heroic transport police and GWR.

Once again, thank you for all your input.

 

[SuspectUsual]

She was caught in an honest mistake and was subjected to absolutely terrible customer service. She wasn't trying to save money (she has plenty of money), or scam the system (she just wouldn't bother).
Or, in the name of balance, for the people who believe that the rail industry treats its customers with respect and would never do anything wrong (Please look at https://x.com/railukforums) she is a criminal mastermind bent on tearing society apart by getting free journeys and we were all saved by the heroic transport police and GWR

Or alternatively she broke the law, and rather than being taken to court she was offered an alternative that avoided this. It isn't just the two extremes you describe.

 

[BongoStar]

It's not clear what action you think should have been taken in such cases.

A penalty fare exists to account for those who (in view of RPI) made a genuine mistake - to deter them from making the same mistake again. Sometimes ToC decide to investigate and offer a settlement instead of prosecution. It's not rocket science to figure out whether one had a valid ticket for travel or not.

Appears that the approach you are suggesting is that passengers who don't have a ticket should be given an option to buy when caught with no penalty or risk of further action.

Imagine if someone was caught shoplifting at a supermarket and the guard only asks them to pay for what they stole - end of. Everyone will start shoplifting tomorrow as there is no real consequence.

If you can suggest a more equitable treatment which is also fair on the honest fare paying passengers as well, I am sure the RDG would love to hear it.

 

[RPI]

They were doing random checks on the main exit. Almost everyone was walking straight out. There are a bunch of other exits to the station which are quite simple to use. She didn't because she is honest and just wanted to buy a ticket in the normal way.
She was caught in an honest mistake and was subjected to absolutely terrible customer service. She wasn't trying to save money (she has plenty of money), or scam the system (she just wouldn't bother).
Or, in the name of balance, for the people who believe that the rail industry treats its customers with respect and would never do anything wrong (Please look at https://x.com/railukforums) she is a criminal mastermind bent on tearing society apart by getting free journeys and we were all saved by the heroic transport police and GWR.

Once again, thank you for all your input.

Just to clarify, on airshow day, there was a full block and ticket check in place at Paignton at every entrance and exit.

 

[800001]

Lesson for future, turn up on time at a station to buy a ticket, if running late, purchase a ticket via any train app, if not possible, board where guard is and ask to buy a ticket!

 

[AlterEgo]

If it makes you comfortable to believe that, then keep believing.

@RPI is in a position where they are able to unequivocally confirm this as a fact.

 

[Haywain]

They also described it as a small admin fee. I wouldn't.

We describe it that way because we have seen a very large number of cases where the administration fee - the company's costs in dealing with the matter - are considerably higher.

Based on trust. Much better.

I'm afraid that you are choosing not to listen to those opinions that don't agree with your own feelings about this matter, but the reality is that the system of trust in this country relies on the customer buying a ticket from the facilities provided before travelling. This is something that your daughter didn't do. And I suspect that there were dozens, of others caught doing the exact same thing that day.

 

[SuspectUsual]

My daughter was fined, quite rightly as you point out. The fine was 30x the original transaction, and fines should be proportionate. See the title of the thread. This is so much against the spirit of the law, that they call it an admin fee. They also described it as a small admin fee. I wouldn't.

That isn't a fine, either legally (only courts can issue fines) or practically (she's been asked to pay for her ticket plus their admin costs).

The admin cost of processing her case (one low value ticket) will be no different to the cost of processing someone who's failed to pay for a high value ticket. And it is, literally, an administration fee

The team investigating this all have to be paid. They need an office to work in. They need IT equipment. None of this is free

 

[Western Sunset]

Yes, it's breaking the law. Yes, it's a crime. Yes, it's defrauding us, the taxpayer.
But, where does human nature and behaviour come into this?

So I arrive at the station and see a train is just about to depart. It's going my way. Is it counter-intuitive to not just jump on board and buy my ticket, either on the train, using an app or at my destination?

Remember the days of "Pay Trains"?

 

[Haywain]

So I arrive at the station and see a train is just about to depart. It's going my way. Is it counter-intuitive to not just jump on board and buy my ticket, either on the train, using an app or at my destination?

It's not about what is or isn't intuitive, it's about what the law says you must do.

Remember the days of "Pay Trains"?

Yes, but that wasn't everywhere. I also remember the days of having tickets manually checked on the way into the station, on the train and at the end of the journey but I don't see that any of that is relevant to what happened a week or two ago.

 

[island]

@RPI is in a position where they are able to unequivocally confirm this as a fact.

Indeed.

Accordingly, I think OP needs to go back to their daughter and ask for an honest and actual description of what happened on the day.