Personally I don’t find that at all with the TfW 158s, which I travel on fairly regularly. They certainly show some signs of minor wear but are still a high standard overall from what I see.
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Discussion: 158s, who does them best?
- Thread starter Hamma52
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Personally I don’t find that at all with the TfW 158s, which I travel on fairly regularly. They certainly show some signs of minor wear but are still a high standard overall from what I see.
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tfw756rider
On Moderation
Yes, it hasn't lasted.
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You've got very lucky then. I've seen all sorts of things happen to them, again I won't mention what they are because it wouldn't be fair on the people who are doing the best they can with what's available to them.
Leyland Bus
Established Member
I'll throw a curve ball and mention the 158s run by the State Railways of Thailand... 
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Like Northern, fitting new cushions thicker than the originals made no sense.
Yorkshire09876
Member
Not ideal looking tatty, but the seats and spacing, and the mix of tables and airline seats, are still probably better than the others.
The EMR ones and some of the Scotrail ones also have the same seats (Grammer IC3000).
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Fair point, if we're talking about interior layout rather than condition.
I've always read that the ones looked after in Inverness are much better than those maintained at Haymarket. Unfortunately we're stuck with 156s. You may complain about AC - the heating in a 156 is provided from the engine. The early train from Oban is known as the Polar Express.
I'll throw a curve ball and mention the 158s run by the State Railways of Thailand...
This has always fascinated me, I have a friend that visits Thailand multiple times a year, (Yes, for that reason.) he sent me a photo of one of the Thai 158s once and said they look British!
tfw756rider
On Moderation
They have 158s and 360s, but the latter are not for this thread of course.
Leyland Bus
Established Member
Ha, comically, so do I (and for that reason also!
) he took quite afew some years ago, including afew in original livery that appeared to have been withdrawn...Ha, comically, so do I (and for that reason also!
My friend isn't into trains, so I think explaining the relation to the British 158 may have gone over his head.
Strange to think there was Regional Railways liveried stock running around Thailand at one point!
Leyland Bus
Established Member
Must have been quite a coup for BREL back in the day!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Siemens of course later sold some 350s (pretty much) to Thailand too! Not in UK livery, but the interior scheme of the express variant was the same as the original 350/1 interior, albeit without armrests.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
In my opinion the "best" and "nice" comments were based on the ex works condition of the TfW refurbs when they came back into traffic 3-4 years ago. But the truth is these 158 refurbs were always a stopgap simply because TfW had already signed their "death warrant" when they ordered the CAF 197s to replace the 158s. The only question mark was the fate of the 158s after TfW disposed of them - whether they would reenter service with another TOC, or be harvested for parts to keep the other class members in traffic with other ROSCOs.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
As I said in post #39, they're "360s" (they don't have gangway connection doors).
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Exactly, although it was actually more 4-5 years ago!
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Fair point, though the express units have a more 350 like interior including the original blue moquette. (The local ones have hard plastic longitudinal seating but are still very 350 like in terms of the basic interior i.e. the blue panels by the doors and yellow grab poles).
scotraildriver
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The Inverness ones had a much nicer refurbishment than the Corkerhill (not Haymarket) ones so look better. Maintenance wise there's nothing between them. The 156s do have an auxiliary heater but the first train from Oban will always be cold as there is an agreement with the Premier Inn at Oban not to run the train before departure following complaints from hotel residents.
I don't think I've ever seen that one!
Yes, the EMT refit was very good. My understanding is that they are being refreshed at the moment, and I have high hopes.
Indeed, a new air conditioning unit, maybe some electronics, and I could be tempted to order another fleet of them when they need retiring.
Pete_uk
On Moderation
I remember Wessex Trains did come out with very nice pink seats with fabric on the armrests. One fellow commuter described them as 'very plush'.
Where did those units go, or did they stay in the 'Wessex' area?
Where did those units go, or did they stay in the 'Wessex' area?
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Just googled and got this reply which was partly from AI the portion italicised
Wessex Trains operated several Class 158 units, primarily in the south-west of England. The specific numbers included 158863, 158864, 158865, and 158866. These units were transferred to Wessex Trains from First Great Western. Additionally, Wessex Trains also operated 158/9 units, which were later incorporated into the Great Western Railway fleet.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
- 158863, 158864, 158865, and 158866: These units were transferred to Wessex Trains from First Great Western.
- 158/9 units: These units were part of the Wessex Trains fleet and eventually became part of the Great Western Railway fleet. Specific unit numbers within the 158/9 series included 158950-158961.
- Other Wessex Trains Class 158 units: While the specific unit numbers are not explicitly listed in the provided context, it's mentioned that Wessex Trains operated a variety of Class 158s, including some that were refurbished. Some examples of these include 158745 and 158751.
Edit
Post amended to indicate that the quote from google was partly generated from AI.
Personally speaking, 158s were just a tad modern for my interest in UK railways which started waning around 1988, but I understood what they were about, particularly in terms of rolling stock replacement, cascade and the disposal of considerable portions of loco hauled stock and locomotives. .
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43096
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Errrrrr, that is seriously flawed. Wessex was one of the predecessors to First Great(er) Western when the original Great Western, Thames Trains and Wessex operations were merged. From memory the Wessex fleet of 158s was something like 158745/746/863-872.
Transilien
Member
The Corkerhill ones are awful and really should have been refurbished to the standard of the Inverness units. When they announced the last interior refurbishment a few years ago I thought that this was going to be the case, but sadly it was just a moquette change!
tfw756rider
On Moderation
I think all the Wessex ones stayed with First Great Western / Great Western Railway.
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What utter AI nonsense.
The units in the first bullet point would've been transferred from Wessex Trains to First Great Western, not the other way round.
No 158/9s have operated outside Northern England, but First Great Western (whose regional division took over Wessex Trains) reconfigured a lot of their 158s to 3-car "hybrid" formations, which remained in subclass 158/0 but were renumbered as 15895x/15896x.
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I don't get the "same class working for the same operator but based at different depots getting different refurbishments" thing - I believe both ScotRail and Northern have done this? Surely all units of the same class working for the same operator, even if based at different depots, should be refurbished equally?
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Transilien
Member
It’s probably about money. The 158s based at Corkerhill were used on central belt commuter services which First probably thought didn’t need such a high standard interior.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Fair enough then.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
When Arriva Trains Wales fully acquired the 175s in 2006-07 (and their 158 home depot changed from Cardiff Canton to the then-new Machynlleth), they downsized their 158 allocation from 40 (158815-854) to 24 (158818-841), with 16 (158815-817 and 158842-854) going to Northern Rail and East Midlands Trains.
Then, starting in the early 2010s, the 158s that remained with Arriva Trains Wales, and the East Midlands Trains 158s (including their share of the ex-Arriva Trains Wales ones) were properly refurbished, with the new seats being Grammer IC3000s I think they're called - these seats have survived through Transport for Wales' and East Midlands Railway's (158847 so far) 2020s retrimming!
Therefore, I was amused when, in 2018 (as someone who had only just started using Northern and had only travelled on one 319 and one 156 with them), someone showed me a photo they took onboard one of 158815/817/842/843 etc. and it still had the Chapman seats and "new" tables that Wales & West had fitted in the late 90s! Albeit with Northern Rail's idea of a "refurbishment" (retrim the seats with some very retro stripy moquette - what was that all about - and do not much besides).
Good that "modern-day" Northern have actually made more of an effort.
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Wyrleybart
Established Member
I guess it is seriously flawed, but that will only be known by people who understand the real history of the referred rolling stock - like you. This thread has led me to reconsider the use of AI, particularly not quoting anything on a forum, but it shows how erroneous information can be regarded as fact when obtained from the internet.
Can you please indulge me though on class 158s for a minute. BR bought a batch of three car class 158s for the Trans Pennine services. I think I understand the politics of why some of them were converted into 159/1s, but why did all bar 158798 have their centre cars removed and formed into other two car units to form erm three car units ? There is plenty of evidence to suggest that splitting up and augmenting units is not wholly positive. Different mileages, periodocities etc
Why was it done ?
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