Discount on my Oyster card

[BJames]

I remembered this recent thread last night when this happened to my friend. He has been using his contactless card but decided to finally get an Oyster to add the 16-25 railcard discount now that he actually travels around London a bit more frequently. The member of staff applied one of the Priv discounts, looking hesitant but did it anyway. I told her that this was not correct and tapped the scroll down arrow to show the NR Railcard option, which she was looking for but didn't seem to realise that there was the ability to scroll down. She basically said she realised so I think she does know now what she's looking for and where to find it.

Thankfully it was then applied correctly but it does make me wonder if she's added Priv incorrectly to other cards and certainly makes me think that some staff need a refresher on how to do this correctly!

 

[sk688]

I have a Gold Card discount loaded on my Oyster card, and during ticket checks on London Overground services, the hand-held readers that staff use always prompts the question ‘can I see your railcard?’
So I’d imagine using an Oyster with the wrong discount and nothing to back up the PRIV discount could be a major problem??

Is it necessary to carry your railcard with you if your Oyster card has a discount loaded to it ? Only asking as I have a Santander railcard which I don't always carry about with me if I'm only making journeys in an Oyster area

 

[Watershed]

Is it necessary to carry your railcard with you if your Oyster card has a discount loaded to it ? Only asking as I have a Santander railcard which I don't always carry about with me if I'm only making journeys in an Oyster area

Yes, you need to be able to produce it in case you are stopped by an RPI. You could be issued with a Penalty Fare or prosecuted if you can't produce the Railcard.

 

[danm14]

Is it necessary to carry your railcard with you if your Oyster card has a discount loaded to it ? Only asking as I have a Santander railcard which I don't always carry about with me if I'm only making journeys in an Oyster area

You must carry your Railcard with you at all times when using a Railcard-discounted Oyster card. This applies even if you're travelling on a London Bus or Tram, or on a rail journey where you do not receive a discount from having the Railcard linked. For the avoidance of doubt, a photograph or photocopy of the Railcard is not sufficient.

I am open to correction on this, but to the best of my knowledge, the "Forgotten Railcard" arrangements (whereby you can forget your Railcard once per year and claim back the cost of any Penalty Fare or new ticket issued once you provide proof you did have a valid Railcard at the time) do not apply to a Railcard discounted Oyster card.

You do not need to carry the discounted Oyster card with you if you are using the Railcard with a non-Oyster ticket.

 

[Surreytraveller]

You must carry your Railcard with you at all times when using a Railcard-discounted Oyster card. This applies even if you're travelling on a London Bus or Tram, or on a rail journey where you do not receive a discount from having the Railcard linked. For the avoidance of doubt, a photograph or photocopy of the Railcard is not sufficient.

I am open to correction on this, but to the best of my knowledge, the "Forgotten Railcard" arrangements (whereby you can forget your Railcard once per year and claim back the cost of any Penalty Fare or new ticket issued once you provide proof you did have a valid Railcard at the time) do not apply to a Railcard discounted Oyster card.

You do not need to carry the discounted Oyster card with you if you are using the Railcard with a non-Oyster ticket.

Where does it say you need to carry the railcard if you're only using the Oystercard on a bus?

 

[danm14]

Where does it say you need to carry the railcard if you're only using the Oystercard on a bus?

Tfl Conditions of Carriage Clause 5.2.6

"Once the discount has been added, only you can use the card. You must carry your National Railcard with you at all times, irrespective of the service you are travelling on and present it for inspection when asked."

It stands to reason too, because in addition to discounting the single fares for rail travel, the Railcard discount also discounts the all-mode daily caps.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Tfl Conditions of Carriage Clause 5.2.6

It stands to reason too, because in addition to discounting the single fares for rail travel, the Railcard discount also discounts the all-mode daily caps.

Not all discounts give a discount on the daily cap. It seems daft to carry the railcard if you're only using buses

 

[AM9]

Not all discounts give a discount on the daily cap. It seems daft to carry the railcard if you're only using buses

What is the big problem with carrying a card or piece of plastic the same size as an oyster card?

 

[danm14]

Not all discounts give a discount on the daily cap. It seems daft to carry the railcard if you're only using buses

All National Railcards that can be added to Oyster do though, and that section specifically relates to those National Railcards.

 

[WizCastro197]

Tfl Conditions of Carriage Clause 5.2.6

It stands to reason too, because in addition to discounting the single fares for rail travel, the Railcard discount also discounts the all-mode daily caps.

Nowhere in the entire section does it mention anything about the bus, just rail related services?

5.2.6 National Railcard or Gold Card discounts
If you hold
a) a 16-25, 26-30, HM Forces, Senior or Veterans Railcard and an Oyster card with the National
Railcard discount set on it; or

1. b) an Oyster card which both holds an adult-rate annual Travelcard and has the associated Gold
   Card discount set; or
2. c) anOystercardonwhichaGoldCarddiscounthasbeensetinassociationwithaprintedadult-
   rate annual Travelcard or National Rail point-to-point season ticket

your individual off-peak pay as you go fares for journeys on Tube, DLR, London Overground, Elizabeth line or National Rail will be a third lower than the equivalent adult rate for the journey. Your off-peak Oyster daily cap will also be a third off the equivalent adult-rate daily cap. You must register your Oyster card by creating an online account. Once the discount has been added, only you can use the card. You must carry your National Railcard with you at all times, irrespective of the service you are travelling on and present it for inspection when asked.
If you hold a Disabled Persons Railcard and an Oyster card with the Disabled Railcard discount added to it, you can get a third off pay as you go fares on Tube, DLR, London Overground, Elizabeth line and National Rail journeys and daily caps at any time.
If you hold a Railcard and are travelling with other people who are eligible for a discount on any printed tickets bought in association with your Railcard, the entire group, including you, must buy and use printed tickets.
If you have an Oyster card with your Disabled Railcard discount set on it, pay as you go credit loaded on it and are travelling with a companion who is eligible for a discount on any printed tickets bought in association with your Railcard, you, as the Railcard holder, may use pay as you go instead of buying a printed ticket.

If you hold an Annual season ticket (Gold Card) valid in Zones 1-6, either on an Oyster card or as a printed ticket, and you wish to travel with a companion holding an Off-peak Day Travelcard bought at a discount in association with your Gold Card you, as the Gold Card holder, do not need to buy a separate ticket. If the journey you are making isn’t covered by your Gold Card, then you must buy a ticket before you travel.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-conditions-of-carriage.pdf

 

[Haywain]

Nowhere in the entire section does it mention anything about the bus, just rail related services?

Surely the off-peak Oyster daily cap can apply to buses.

 

[WizCastro197]

Surely the off-peak Oyster daily cap can apply to buses.

Apologies, I wasn't referring to the cap at all, just how it doesn't mention about taking your railcard on the bus. The quotation taken from the TfL Conditions of Travel that @danm14 included in their post, didn't carry over into mine when I quoted them.

 

[Haywain]

Apologies, I wasn't referring to the cap at all, just how it doesn't mention about taking your railcard on the bus. The quotation taken from the TfL Conditions of Travel that @danm14 included in their post, didn't carry over into mine when I quoted them.

Doesn't "You must carry your National Railcard with you at all times," cover buses?

 

[WizCastro197]

Doesn't "You must carry your National Railcard with you at all times," cover buses?

I may have interpreted it differently, as it then goes to continue to say: 'irrespective of the service you are travelling on and present it for inspection when asked'. So I thought this only really applied to Underground, NR and DLR (as these are mentioned several times), as bus isn't mentioned explicitly anywhere else within that section. I also wonder how many actually read the Conditions of Carriage, and how many really take their railcard on the bus, because I guarantee most people don't, because a bus has nothing to do with rail? Unless they are then connecting onto a train or the just have it on them anyway.

 

[PeterC]

Not all discounts give a discount on the daily cap. It seems daft to carry the railcard if you're only using buses

You mean I should remove my railcard from the Oyster wallet if I only intend to catch the bus? That seems daft to me.

 

[danm14]

Nowhere in the entire section does it mention anything about the bus, just rail related services?

They are the "Transport for London Conditions of Carriage for Bus, Tube, Tram, DLR, London Overground and Elizabeth line Services".

In the context it is used in, it is clear to me that "irrespective of the service you are travelling on" means "even if you're not travelling on one of the services that you get a discount on", because otherwise it would be redundant, as it goes without saying that you need to carry it when you are getting a discount.

I also wonder how many actually read the Conditions of Carriage

Very, very few people.

and how many really take their railcard on the bus, because I guarantee most people don't, because a bus has nothing to do with rail?

I'd say more people do than don't, by virtue of having it in their wallet or purse.

 

[Surreytraveller]

You mean I should remove my railcard from the Oyster wallet if I only intend to catch the bus? That seems daft to me.

Why would you do that? I may not carry my Railcard in the same wallet at my Oystercard (card clash an all that)

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Surely the off-peak Oyster daily cap can apply to buses.

If you're only using buses, there is a separate cap for that

 

[danm14]

Why would you do that? I may not carry my Railcard in the same wallet at my Oystercard (card clash an all that)

Railcards, regardless of whether paper or plastic, do not have an RFID chip in them, so they do not cause card clash.

 

[AM9]

Why would you do that? I may not carry my Railcard in the same wallet at my Oystercard (card clash an all that)

Er ... railcards are passive, they aren't affected by any Oyster card readers, so card clashes are a figment of your imagination.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Railcards, regardless of whether paper or plastic, do not have an RFID chip in them, so they do not cause card clash.

Yes, I realise that. But I have more than thing in my pocket. My Railcard is kept in a separate location to my Oystercard.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2023 ==

Er ... railcards are passive, they aren't affected by any Oyster card readers, so card clashes are a figment of your imagination.

Yes, I realise that. But I have more than thing in my pocket. My Railcard is kept in a separate location to my Oystercard.

 

[miklcct]

Not all discounts give a discount on the daily cap. It seems daft to carry the railcard if you're only using buses

I was inspected by an RPI on a bus two days ago and she did ask me to see my railcard after I presented my Oyster card.

 

[AM9]

Yes, I realise that. But I have more than thing in my pocket. My Railcard is kept in a separate location to my Oystercard.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2023 ==


Yes, I realise that. But I have more than thing in my pocket. My Railcard is kept in a separate location to my Oystercard.

That's your choice, but there's nothing stopping you carrying it whenever you use TfL services, and one day you might be stuck without it. It's not exactly difficult to organise carrying a piece of plastic or card.

 

[MikeWh]

Surely the off-peak Oyster daily cap can apply to buses.

If you're only using buses, there is a separate cap for that.

Indeed there is a separate cap for buses, but buses do also count towards the off-peak rail caps. At the moment the off-peak zone 1-2 railcard cap is £5.10 and the bus cap is £4.95, but a few years back it was possible to get a discount on the bus cap because it was more than the off-peak zone 1-2 railcard cap.

 

[infobleep]

I was inspected by an RPI on a bus two days ago and she did ask me to see my railcard after I presented my Oyster card.

That's a rare event. I've been using buses in London regularly since 2013 and don't remember once encountering an RPI.

I always carry my rail cars with me. I have it attached to my wallet, which is attached to my trousers via a chain so I can lose it.

 

[totally]

I live out of London but hold a Disabled Railcard. When I renew it I have to have the card added to my Oyster before using the Oystaer card again. Experience has taught me to go to a TfL Office for this as they knw what they are doing. I go to the one on Kings Cross Station. I last went last month and iot was done in less than 30 seconds.

I have been asked to produce my railcard by an inspector on a London Bus, it struck me as obvious it was needed as it is the existence of the railcard which determines the fare. In the case of the bus if i have already reached the daily cap then the fare would be zero rated or a part fare if taking the bus caused me to reach the cap, hence the need for the Railcard. Until I read this it always seemed straightforward to understand. That said it is rather odd to have to get a member of staff to do this, it is not something I could do online.

 

[CyrusWuff]

That said it is rather odd to have to get a member of staff to do this, it is not something I could do online.

At present, the discount type and expiry date are stored on the card itself, which is why it needs to be presented to a reader to update it.

 

[Adam Williams]

At present, the discount type and expiry date are stored on the card itself, which is why it needs to be presented to a reader to update it.

So, zero reason it couldn't be done online and then "collected" in person then.

 

[danm14]

So, zero reason it couldn't be done online and then "collected" in person then.

Apart from the fact that anyone could make up a Railcard number and expiry date and use the card to pay discounted fares until such point as they met an inspector, which might be never.

 

[Haywain]

Apart from the fact that anyone could make up a Railcard number and expiry date and use the card to pay discounted fares until such point as they met an inspector, which might be never.

That could be overcome by using the method that GTR use to add a railcard to KeyGo. You submit an image of the railcard as well as the details and have to wait for a human to approve it.

 

[Watershed]

Apart from the fact that anyone could make up a Railcard number and expiry date and use the card to pay discounted fares until such point as they met an inspector, which might be never.

It really wouldn't be beyond the wit of mankind for TfL to get access to the RDG Railcard systems in order to verify that the Railcard details are correct - in the same way that the Railcard website has access to passport and driving licence systems in order to verify age and identity. It's just a matter of incentives; TfL have no incentive to improve the current situation, nor to rein their staff in when they refuse to set discounts, so the unsatisfactory situation will continue.