Disappearing Train

[greaterangrier]

Hi all,
I can't seem to find any sort of thread about this sort of topic or this area in general so I decided to start one.
The 1104 1Y14 LST to IPS is an 8 car Class 360. It sits in Ipswich platform 4A then returns to London as the 1252 1Y41 IPS to LST however it returns as a 4 car Class 360. After having a look, the next Ipswich train down doesn't gain a unit at Ipswich and there doesn't seem to be any movements in Ipswich platform 4A around this time.

Does anyone know what happens to this unit?
Thanks in advance

 

[Esker-pades]

What source are you using?

 

[greaterangrier]

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/train_lengths_on_the_sunshine_co This guy's FOI request
Edit: It's May 2019 timetable with and the 9:05 CLT to LST leads to this service. Also know from some trainspotting at Colchester Station.

 

[Esker-pades]

I note that this is for the May 2019 timetable. There has been a timetable change in December, so it may not be relevant anymore.

What are your sources for the train movements?

 

[greaterangrier]

Just Realtime Trains - not anything fancy

 

[Shwam3]

From the unit diagrams, 1Y14 and 1Y41 are both booked 4 car 360s in both the May & December 2019 timetables.
The previous working, 1N31 0905 Clacton - Liverpool St, is booked 8 car but splits at Liverpool St to form 1Y14 and 1N20 1118 Liverpool St - Clacton.

 

[Esker-pades]

I suspected RTT use. RTT is scattered with vast errors on platforming, non-passenger moves and all of that. It's a good source for general information, but for the detailed micro-stuff you shouldn't be relying on it.

 

[greaterangrier]

I feel so dumb for not looking down the list.
Thanks for the answer though

 

[306024]

I suspected RTT use. RTT is scattered with vast errors on platforming, non-passenger moves and all of that. It's a good source for general information, but for the detailed micro-stuff you shouldn't be relying on it.

RTT is correct here. 1N31 splits in pfm 14 at Liverpool St.

On GA anything that is planned to turn a wheel will have a schedule, that includes station shunts.

 

[greaterangrier]

I've found another confusing thing where 1934 1F54 arrives in CET, goes to COL and back (platform 4) but it suddenly changes to a 321 from a class 360. It's impossible for any units to stay in CET because the walton service comes through after and then in COL at platform 4 the train before is a 321 ex Harwich terminator which spilts, goes in two different directions and clears the platform. Then the 360 from Colchester comes in and it turns into a 321. Am I being stupid again? Any help appreciated

 

[306024]

I've found another confusing thing where 1934 1F54 arrives in CET, goes to COL and back (platform 4) but it suddenly changes to a 321 from a class 360. It's impossible for any units to stay in CET because the walton service comes through after and then in COL at platform 4 the train before is a 321 ex Harwich terminator which spilts, goes in two different directions and clears the platform. Then the 360 from Colchester comes in and it turns into a 321. Am I being stupid again? Any help appreciated

You’ve lost me with the detail here, 1F54 arrives Colchester Town at 20.49 and there isn’t a 19.34 arrival. I’m guessing you mean 1F52 which arrives 19.45 and forms 2F91 the 20.00 departure.

Class 321 and class 360 in RTT are just what the train is timed for, not necessarily what is actually diagrammed. As it happens the timings are the same for both classes so a class 321 can substitute for a class 360 and not lose time. Usually GA planners put the correct timing load on but obviously not in this case.

 

[greaterangrier]

Thanks for the response, that's basically a perfect answer as Greater Anglia are never willing to give out information like this so that's the best, I guess that you could find.

 

[306024]

Thanks for the response, that's basically a perfect answer as Greater Anglia are never willing to give out information like this so that's the best, I guess that you could find.

You can generally work out diagrams from Real Time Trains just by studying the platform working. In GA land that should be 100% accurate. What you can’t pick up though is if a train drops a unit off in a platform, then another train collects it later.

Where you also struggle is at locations where local shunts are not timetabled. This is usually for historical reasons, but modern Automatic Route Setting technology in signalling centres usually requires all shunts to be timetabled properly too.