Disabled Railcard query

[moonrakerz]

My wife has a Disabled Railcard, I have a Senior Railcard. I have just bought some advance tickets via the FGW website.

When I purchased them I bought two of each ticket (his 'n hers) and identified one passenger as "Disabled" and one as "Senior".
When I collected them from the machine (at the third attempt - b****y things u/s again !!) I saw that they were both "Disabled".
It appears that the "system" issues both tickets as "Disabled" - now, I do understand the logic for this.......BUT, it effectively means that I cannot travel on my own if my wife was unwell, or decided not to go to the match that day, as my Railcard would not match my ticket, and I would have no proof that I did ask for a "Senior" ticket.

The obvious answer is to buy the tickets in two transactions the next time............BUT, when doing this I wouldn't know, when buying the first ticket if a second one was still available at the same fare - which might affect whether we would undertake that journey, or not, in the first place !

Any thoughts/comments ?

 

[scotsman]

Get onto FGW web enquiries, they should be able to find the problem and reissue or pass you on to someone who can. You should ask fro your ticket to be reissued, as they have sold you a ticket that is invalid.

 

[tony_mac]

Maybe one of the other websites does it properly?
Do you have a confirmation email showing the correct railcards?

Sadly, we know that having the wrong ticket - even if the fare is correct - can lead to a penalty fare being issued.

 

[moonrakerz]

Maybe one of the other websites does it properly?

Have tried SWT, which does exactly the same as FGW.
National Rail will only let you enter one type of Railcard.

Do you have a confirmation email showing the correct railcards?
Sadly, we know that having the wrong ticket - even if the fare is correct - can lead to a penalty fare being issued.

I don't have the confirmatory e-mail - but would think that would show 2 X Disabled, which is what comes up on the website on the last page before you actually have to pay for the tickets. (and is actually the only place that does show exactly what tickets you are getting)
Might go down the Ticket Office tomorrow and see what they have to say !

 

[yorkie]

In theory it may be possible to do a zero excess from one railcard type to another (I know you can get railcard discount to be excessed to non-discounted as I've had this done before) but I am unsure if the system will allow that or not... alternatively the station could endorse the tickets...

 

[moonrakerz]

In theory it may be possible to do a zero excess from one railcard type to another (I know you can get railcard discount to be excessed to non-discounted as I've had this done before) but I am unsure if the system will allow that or not... alternatively the station could endorse the tickets...

Yes indeed........ but whatever were to happen would very much depend on "which side of bed" the rail employee "got out of" that morning.
He might want to believe my story or he might think I was a professional "fare fiddler" and hit me with all he could ........
(Having said that, I have always found train staff usually to be extremely pleasant and helpful. I tend to use Advance tickets a lot, if I have "finished" early at my destination I always try and get an earlier train back than my tickets says. I always ask the Guard before I get on and have NEVER been refused.)

Changed my mind about going to the station - it's raining ! E-mailed FGW instead.

 

[londonbridge]

Re your last point,when sorting out my football travel in the past I've booked advance tickets then after the match have got back to the train station in time for the train before the one I was booked on. A few times I asked the guard if he'd let me on the early one,sometimes I was allowed and sometimes refused.

I think it's better to ask the guard beforehand,as (s)he can only say no,rather than just get on and then try and negotiate with them when they come round checking tickets,but as you say to a large extent it depends on which side of bed the guard got out of that day.

 

[moonrakerz]

I think it's better to ask the guard beforehand,as (s)he can only say no,rather than just get on and then try and negotiate with them when they come round checking tickets,but as you say to a large extent it depends on which side of bed the guard got out of that day.

It is vital to ask beforehand - otherwise you are in the "wrong" before you even start.

The last time I did that I was really surprised by the response from the guard.
We boarded a train to get from Newton Abbott to Exeter St Davids (this leg wasn't tied to a particular train). The train that we got on was for Paddington, stopping at Westbury (running almost an hour late - only one working power car) - which actually was our final destination on the next Westbury stopper, entailing an hour wait at Exeter.

The train wasn't overly full, so I left my wife and went in search of the guard. When I found him I explained that we had tickets for the next Westbury train but could we stay on this one, rather than wait for an hour at Exeter. He not only said that was OK, but as I turned to head back to my seat, he thanked me for coming and asking him !

 

[tony_mac]

I tried asking a Southern guard recently, so as to avoid a sub 40-minute cross-London connection with OAP, child, and two large suitcases.
He flatly refused

 

[EltonRoad]

The obvious answer is to buy the tickets in two transactions the next time............BUT, when doing this I wouldn't know, when buying the first ticket if a second one was still available at the same fare - which might affect whether we would undertake that journey, or not, in the first place !

I suppose in response to this, to see whether two tickets were still available, you could book two tickets without railcard, get seat numbers, then before paying cancel it, then start again and do two transactions.

 

[CarterUSM]

It is vital to ask beforehand - otherwise you are in the "wrong" before you even start.

The last time I did that I was really surprised by the response from the guard.
We boarded a train to get from Newton Abbott to Exeter St Davids (this leg wasn't tied to a particular train). The train that we got on was for Paddington, stopping at Westbury (running almost an hour late - only one working power car) - which actually was our final destination on the next Westbury stopper, entailing an hour wait at Exeter.

The train wasn't overly full, so I left my wife and went in search of the guard. When I found him I explained that we had tickets for the next Westbury train but could we stay on this one, rather than wait for an hour at Exeter. He not only said that was OK, but as I turned to head back to my seat, he thanked me for coming and asking him !

Excellent stuff mate, I thank anybody asking similar queries, it really saves any possible embarrassment on either side! In response to those who have been refused, it may seem unreasonable, but it would have been no doubt worse if you had boarded and then explained yourself, as has been said already.

 

[tony_mac]

I would guess that if we had just boarded then it would have probably been ignored, as I imagine it would be a lot of hassle to try and deal with a penalty fare for an overseas customer (and child) who are not carrying any sterling - when the only crime is trying to be more cautious crossing London than the booking system allows!

 

[RJ]

Disabled Persons Railcard holders may travel with an accompanying person. The accompanying person is entitled to the same discount rate so OP, you're valid with the Disabled Persons ticket. If you're going to be travelling alone however then you will have to do a seperate transaction with your Senior Railcard.

 

[moonrakerz]

Having had another play with the FGW website I have found the way round this problem.
You have to book one journey on one Railcard, then "add another journey" on the other. This does give you each ticket on each type of Railcard AND allows you to see that both tickets are available at the cheapest fare before you buy.

However, I think my original point stands: if you are not aware of this "quirk" in the booking system, you could get caught out - expensively !

 

[keefysher]

I toyed with getting a disabled railcard that i'm entitled to. I came to the conclusion that for infrequent train travel it works out cheaper to use thetrainline.com for tickets. By booking at least a day in advance you save far more than the disabled railcard does.

The only downside is that you have to pay by debit card to avoid the credit card fee. Also, don't use the text advisory service as that costs. You get an email with the full details of the fare structure that you can send to your mobile phone for reference if challenged by an over enthusiastic meglomaniac in uniform.

When booking fares, spend the time to configure your choice to include tickets valid on all trains at or around the time you want to return.

An example is home to Waterloo peak return: at station ticket office £38.30, trainline £18.60

How often do disabled/seniors actually buy tickets on the day of travel?

 

[Deerfold]

I toyed with getting a disabled railcard that i'm entitled to. I came to the conclusion that for infrequent train travel it works out cheaper to use thetrainline.com for tickets. By booking at least a day in advance you save far more than the disabled railcard does.

The only downside is that you have to pay by debit card to avoid the credit card fee. Also, don't use the text advisory service as that costs. You get an email with the full details of the fare structure that you can send to your mobile phone for reference if challenged by an over enthusiastic meglomaniac in uniform.

When booking fares, spend the time to configure your choice to include tickets valid on all trains at or around the time you want to return.

An example is home to Waterloo peak return: at station ticket office £38.30, trainline £18.60

How often do disabled/seniors actually buy tickets on the day of travel?

I'd suggest you use one of the online planners that don't charge any fees such as eastcoast.co.uk. You can get railcard dicounts on almost all the advance fares too.

 

[janb]

An example is home to Waterloo peak return: at station ticket office £38.30, trainline £18.60

How often do disabled/seniors actually buy tickets on the day of travel?

God I hate that trainline advert, it has so much to answer for. The same fares are available everywhere (except certain special offers, virgin half savers). Its the time that you book that can matter, not where.

Also the number of people who come for ToDs that are walkup fares is ridiculous, quite often they've paid too much, 2 singles instead of a return, 2 returns instead of a Duo etc etc. Had one person yesterday, who we informed we could do the same ticket on the day at the same price, with no booking fee, and her husband turned to her and said "its always cheaper on the internet". Fighting a losing battle.

 

[MikeWh]

It doesn't help when journos like Sandra Parsons in the Daily Mail take what the advert says and then moan that some people, particularly elderly technophobes, don't want to use the internet and would rather go to their local station.

I sent her a polite email pointing out that it's the advance rather than the website that gets the discount. Strangely she didn't even have the courtesy to acknowledge my comment.

 

[EltonRoad]

I can't stand the trainline advert, not only the message it conveys, but comparing people who go to the station to a load of sheep. I just can't stand it.

 

[Deerfold]

I can't stand the trainline advert, not only the message it conveys, but comparing people who go to the station to a load of sheep. I just can't stand it.

Glad to see it's not just me.

 

[keefysher]

I can't stand the trainline advert, not only the message it conveys, but comparing people who go to the station to a load of sheep. I just can't stand it.

I've not actually seen the advert.

But I can understand the comparison being drawn, moreso if the TOCs were involved in the ad!! Let's face it, TOCs consider the commuting populus as sheep, or cattle moreover.


Perhaps stations at crush hour ought to play the theme to 'Rawhide" over the tannoy!!

You can't complain about the service on SWT, as there isn't any!!

The iphone app for trainline is rather good.

 

[Greenback]

Sorry to drag up this thread, but I am genuinely interested in why you think there is some sort of magic discount attached to the train line, which isn't available anywhere else, especially if you haven't seen their misleading advertisements?

 

[moonrakerz]

It doesn't help when journos like Sandra Parsons in the Daily Mail take what the advert says

She is not alone in giving out really duff info and claiming it to be a red hot money saving tip.
The most common one (appears most weekends !) is that you should take your telephone line rental away from BT and save £1 a month by going somewhere else. What they don't tell you is that by staying with BT you have access to much cheaper call providers, which the cheaper line rental people either block you from using or charge you extra to access.

 

[keefysher]

Sorry to drag up this thread, but I am genuinely interested in why you think there is some sort of magic discount attached to the train line, which isn't available anywhere else, especially if you haven't seen their misleading advertisements?

I don't think there is a unique magical discount with trainline.

In my experience of paying for my own rail tickets, I've found the trainline web site to be favourable to other sites, including those mentioned in this topic.

I don't take any notice of advertising per ce. I prefer to do my own research when buying things. IMHO you can get better deals on purchases if you avoid advertised products, some examples:

I have 3 motor vehicles that require insuring, I go directly to insurers for quotes not the comparison sites, or advertising companies. This saves me on average £600 per year for full business use for multiple drivers on 2 of 3 vehicles, with high mileage use. Something I've not seen advertised.

On flights, I go direct to the airlines I want to fly with. Last year 4 of us flew Business Class London/Dubai/Sydney/Auckland/Brisbane/Singapore/Dubai/London on Emirates for half of the cheapes advertised London/Sydney fare with the 'cheap' online advertisers.
This year we flew Business to Orlando with Virgin for 2/3 the advertised prices.

As I mentioned before, trainline gives me cheaper prices than I have been offered if I took up the facility of a disabled railcard. I don't use my entitlement to the disabled railcard for that very reason.

I'm communicating this message using a new Apple laptop purchased at 25% below the advertised price, through research.

My wife now realises that her birthday and christmas presents are invariably 'a deal' I've secured!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

She is not alone in giving out really duff info and claiming it to be a red hot money saving tip.
The most common one (appears most weekends !) is that you should take your telephone line rental away from BT and save £1 a month by going somewhere else. What they don't tell you is that by staying with BT you have access to much cheaper call providers, which the cheaper line rental people either block you from using or charge you extra to access.

Why use BT, or any other telephone line rental people for your phoneline?

If use 'say no to 0870' you can obtain the 'free' (by free often included calls allowance with a telephone line supplier) numbers anyway.

I use a bundled service provision of electricity/gas/telephone/broadband that reduced my monthly bills using seperate, dual fuel providers by £120 per month. No line rental or call charges elements of the bill, just the one payment. Facility to register gas/electric readings each month to keep on top of things, and if taken up, a mastercard debit card that gives discount against the bill if you use certain retailers. Not used that facility yet, but am researching it; on the surface you receive a net 3% of monthly spend against it. Can also add mobile telephone/s to it, but data use is not included.

Just need to find a bundle that removes poll tax and water rates!!!

 

[Mojo]

In my experience of paying for my own rail tickets, I've found the trainline web site to be favourable to other sites, including those mentioned in this topic.

All websites access fares from the exact same database and they should all be offering the same Advance ticket avaliability for each train (I have known in the past of a few glitches with Raileasy which is a different system).

Most Tocs use theTrainline system to power their interface and in some cases you will notice the pages are near identical, save some differences in styling.

I would go as far to say that theTrainline is never cheaper than booking direct through the Toc.

See this advert from East Midlands Trains to see how other websites rip you off, even before you take into account discounts that Tocs give to entice you to book through their own website (such as the £1 discount quoted by EMT in their advert).

 

[Greenback]

On flights, I go direct to the airlines I want to fly with. Last year 4 of us flew Business Class London/Dubai/Sydney/Auckland/Brisbane/Singapore/Dubai/London on Emirates for half of the cheapes advertised London/Sydney fare with the 'cheap' online advertisers.
This year we flew Business to Orlando with Virgin for 2/3 the advertised prices.

As I mentioned before, trainline gives me cheaper prices than I have been offered if I took up the facility of a disabled railcard. I don't use my entitlement to the disabled railcard for that very reason.

Thanks for replying, I agree with almost everything you;ve said, I am always looking for the cheapest way to do things, which is why i cna;t really get my head around the bit I've quoted. If you go directly to an airline tog et the cheapest tickets, why not do the same with the train?

I've just had a thought - are we confusing trainline powered sites with the actual trainline site itself? FGW, for instance, is powered by the trainline engine, but doesn;t charge card fees or postage. As Mojo says, the fares on FGW should be identical to the Trainline's own site, except for where FGW offers it's own additional discount, not available anyhwere else.

I;ve searched East Coast for a one way ticket London to Edinburgh on 27 October at 1200 (The Highland Chieftain!). The price is £20.25 and that is the price you pay with no hidden extras.

On the trainline, the ticket price is £22.75 plus a £1 booking fee. So the trainline doesn;t save me any money at all in this example, it costs me an extra £3.50 over EC! But using FGW at least omits the £1 fee!

 

[keefysher]

See this advert from East Midlands Trains to see how other websites rip you off, even before you take into account discounts that Tocs give to entice you to book through their own website (such as the £1 discount quoted by EMT in their advert).[/QUOTE]

As much as I hate pedants on forums, the link you posted doesn't give a £1 discount:

It gives a £2 discount for the journey.

Perhaps the database is corrupted giving variable prices for the same requirement at different times!!

Is it any wonder buying train tickets is so much of a pain in the backside!

Having just compared a same journey with my local TOC website and the infamous Trainline.com, there is no difference in cost on this ocassion. In this case if I were to be actually making the booking I'd enact my personal choice and use Trainline.com

There is no incentive with my local TOC such as the EMT. Must be a crowded route!

 

[moonrakerz]

Why use BT, or any other telephone line rental people for your phoneline?

If use 'say no to 0870' you can obtain the 'free' (by free often included calls allowance with a telephone line supplier) numbers anyway.

I use a bundled service provision of electricity/gas/telephone/broadband that reduced my monthly bills using seperate, dual fuel providers by £120 per month. No line rental or call charges elements of the bill, just the one payment. Facility to register gas/electric readings each month to keep on top of things, and if taken up, a mastercard debit card that gives discount against the bill if you use certain retailers. Not used that facility yet, but am researching it; on the surface you receive a net 3% of monthly spend against it. Can also add mobile telephone/s to it, but data use is not included.

Just need to find a bundle that removes poll tax and water rates!!!

Why use BT ? Very simply - because BT have to, by Law, allow its line users free access to any other telecomms supplier. People like Sky, The Post Office, Talk Talk will charge (quite legally) you to use other CPS (carrier pre-select) services or cheap dial-through supplier - or, as some are starting to do, prevent you from using them at all.

If you can find a bundle that includes every thing that you want and the price of using that bundle is less than a "bundle" of separate suppliers, that's fine. The problem is that with telephone calls in particular a "headline price" often turns out to be not so cheap as it may first appear.

Examples are: "Free evening/weekend calls, Free 0870/0845 calls". These are NOT free, they are costed into your monthly payments. Apart from which, due to changes in the use/pricing of 08*** numbers, many commercial organisations now use 0844 numbers - which are not included in these "Free" packages.

I rent my line from BT.
I use another company as my CPS, I get free evening(from 1800, many others are now 1900) /weekend calls with them - BUT, unlike any other CPS provider I pay them nothing at all - in fact my account is in credit with them, as when I joined them, they were actually paying me to use them !!
I use a dial through supplier during the day: 5p to connect the call then ZERO p per minute. Calls to Mobiles are 6/7p per min.
I use "saynoto0870" sometimes, if needed.
For international calls there is a plethora of carriers who are much, much cheaper than the main stream suppliers - no accounts needed.
For my broadband I use another provider: £10 a month for an "up to 16" mbs service which consistently gives me 13-14mbs.

I admit to being a little concerned when you state that you are using a "bundle" for all your utilities. If you are using the company that springs to my mind - they are using the same sort of "come ons" that the trainline do. If you saved £120 a month with them, then you could have saved far more by going else where ! A company that gains business by using customers as sales agents and pays "cash back" HAS to get extra revenue from somewhere to cover the cost of this - only one source, its customers !!
If you are not using this particular company - please ignore my last paragraph !

 

[Greenback]

See this advert from East Midlands Trains to see how other websites rip you off, even before you take into account discounts that Tocs give to entice you to book through their own website (such as the £1 discount quoted by EMT in their advert).

As much as I hate pedants on forums, the link you posted doesn't give a £1 discount:

It gives a £2 discount for the journey.

Perhaps the database is corrupted giving variable prices for the same requirement at different times!!

Is it any wonder buying train tickets is so much of a pain in the backside!

Having just compared a same journey with my local TOC website and the infamous Trainline.com, there is no difference in cost on this ocassion. In this case if I were to be actually making the booking I'd enact my personal choice and use Trainline.com

There is no incentive with my local TOC such as the EMT. Must be a crowded route![/QUOTE]


Looking at the EMT advert, if you add up the extra costs involved with redspottedhanky, Trainline and Raileasy, the difference is even greater.

If anyone wants to exercise their personal choice and use Trainline, I have no problem with that, but to claim Trainline is cheaper is simply inaccurate!

 

[keefysher]

Thanks for replying, I agree with almost everything you;ve said, I am always looking for the cheapest way to do things, which is why i cna;t really get my head around the bit I've quoted. If you go directly to an airline tog et the cheapest tickets, why not do the same with the train?

I've just had a thought - are we confusing trainline powered sites with the actual trainline site itself? FGW, for instance, is powered by the trainline engine, but doesn;t charge card fees or postage. As Mojo says, the fares on FGW should be identical to the Trainline's own site, except for where FGW offers it's own additional discount, not available anyhwere else.

To be honest, I think the rail industry is a unique beast. At the risk of getting flamed. Customer service and ease of booking is at the bottom of the list. Certainly the style of the differing and competing companies within it doesn't lend itself to illustrating customer focus and service. Whereas airlines know you have a choice and can make that choice easily.

Example, when you get off a train at a terminus, is there a tannoy message thanking you for choosing that TOC? There is on a plane, thanking you for choosing that airline.

Granted there is not the choice of TOCs on same routes. But there is still a need to put the customer first. Certainly the framework of the industry with over regulation, too many chiefs and not enough injuns, fighting between the various parties, layers of cost on cost, punitive performance regimes that take money out of service delivery are all contributors to the mess and complexity of fares and bookings.

I also think their is a degree of 'don't care less' with some TOCs taking the captive customer base of commuters for granted.

Even if comparison is drawn with, say Ryanair in the airline industry. At least with Ryanair you know low price drives their poor service and that anything beyond basic has a tariff that makes it poor value for money.

In my comparisons I am using trainline.com directly, and the TOC direct websites. I must admit to being surprised at the lack of difference in this morning's comparison, maybe things are improving!!