Disability issues.

[faltskog36abba]

I have just returned from Glasgow with my family, two who are wheelchair users.

I booked assistance 24 hours before travelling from Manchester Piccadilly to Glasgow with a change at Preston and all was fine at Piccadilly and central stations.

However when we changed at Preston there was no one to provide a ramp to disembark the northern service and again no one was there to assist us boarding the northern service on our return despite the conductor radioing ahead for assistance.

I can understand if the trains were late or we were routed to another platform but all seemed fine, virgins train crew staff members had to help my mother and auntie from the train whilst the platform staff member at Preston station seemed to be oblivious to what was going on.

Does anyone else have a similar experience on the rail network? and what could have caused the breakdown in communications at Preston station?..

many thanks.

 

[Master29]

I can only surmise a mix up between the TOC`s but even so, it`s pretty poor on the part of Northern. It would be best to take up your complaint with whichever train company or outlet you purchased your tickets from

 

[Greenback]

It's very poor, and incidents like this don't do the railway any favours at all. We can only guess at what actually caused the problem, but whatever caused it, things like this are too common for my liking.

 

[superkev]

As I mentioned on another thread when every bus these days has an integral ramp often powered I can't get my head around why even New trains dont.
K

 

[najaB]

As I mentioned on another thread when every bus these days has an integral ramp often powered I can't get my head around why even New trains dont.
K

I would imagine mainly because a bus driver is a lot closer to 'the action' than a train driver would be, and there are a lot more staffed stations than there are staffed bus stops.

 

[221129]

As I mentioned on another thread when every bus these days has an integral ramp often powered I can't get my head around why even New trains dont.
K

Also the gap between a low floor bus (which normally has kneeling suspension) and the kerb is normally quite small but the gap between a train and platform is somewhat more.

 

[Llanigraham]

As I mentioned on another thread when every bus these days has an integral ramp often powered I can't get my head around why even New trains dont.
K

Because on the railway the infra structure is not consistent, where as bus stops are all being rebuilt to a known fixed standard.
Plus the driver is invariably able to see exactly what the ramp is doing, unlike a train with numerous doors.

And I would disagree that every bus is so equipped. Many around here aren't!

 

[superkev]

Because on the railway the infra structure is not consistent, where as bus stops are all being rebuilt to a known fixed standard.
Plus the driver is invariably able to see exactly what the ramp is doing, unlike a train with numerous doors.

And I would disagree that every bus is so equipped. Many around here aren't!

Old trains would of course be a problem but sorry I'm not convinced that new trains can't have something designed for at least one door and perhaps short LU style short sections of platforms at busier routes to start with.l
I believe all buses over 15 seats have to have ramps to be dda and in London at least these are powered.
Those huge pieces of ironmongery currently used as ramps looks heavy and most unwieldy. Must be a better way.
K

 

[Alfie1014]

I do think that this is one area where ATOC/RDG/ORR/DfT could come together and agree standards on new train design for things like accessing the train, at least in terms of familes of vehicles - Intercity and InterUrban, commuter and rural. The problem is that there isn't even any incentive to standardise vehicle types so we have new trains being built for the network in <20/20/22/23/24/and 26m car lengths. End doors and 1/3 + 2/3 doors and with Crossrail 1/4 +1/2 +3/4 doors. Therefore it's almost impossible to harmonise these interfaces with numerous platform shapes and sizes without the use of some sort of bridging device, which other than manual ramps, the industry hasn't been keen on up until now.

Possibly it's time for further legislation, though I doubt there's much appitite for such a step and anyway with so many new trains being (or recently) built we're going to be stuck with the problem for another 25-30 years to come, unless there's a solution not thought of just around the corner!

 

[scrapy]

Virgin trains manage Preston station and provide disabled assistance on behalf of all train operators that use the station. When you say Virgin train crew helped do you mean a driver or guard off another Virgin train or do you mean Virgin station staff? Northern do not do their own assistance at Preston although the conductor should help if Virgin staff do not turn up.

 

[AlterEgo]

I can only surmise a mix up between the TOC`s but even so, it`s pretty poor on the part of Northern. It would be best to take up your complaint with whichever train company or outlet you purchased your tickets from

No, don't complain to the ticket retailer!

You complain to the TOC responsible for the service failure. In the OP's case it will be Virgin Trains. It is likely to be a human error.

 

[Robertj21a]

Because on the railway the infra structure is not consistent, where as bus stops are all being rebuilt to a known fixed standard.
Plus the driver is invariably able to see exactly what the ramp is doing, unlike a train with numerous doors.

And I would disagree that every bus is so equipped. Many around here aren't!

Every single deck bus used on public service in the UK must be equipped with a ramp already, and every double deck bus must also be so equipped by the end of this year. The only exceptions will be coaches (in 2020), buses only used on 'closed' contracts such as school runs, private hire etc and any with less that 22 seats.

 

[faltskog36abba]

Virgin trains manage Preston station and provide disabled assistance on behalf of all train operators that use the station. When you say Virgin train crew helped do you mean a driver or guard off another Virgin train or do you mean Virgin station staff? Northern do not do their own assistance at Preston although the conductor should help if Virgin staff do not turn up.

The train crew that worked the train into Preston helped us onto the platform, they then went off into the mess room until they worked a train back up to Scotland.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Oo look, what a surprise, another failure in passenger assist.

I book in advance for multiple assists a year and around 50 percent of these, usually involving the same TOC and almost always the same station fail.


What is genuinely surprising to me is that the OP was let down at Preston, a station which if pre booked has never failed me before so something reasonably major has it would seam gone wrong here.

The current system IMO is flawed in so many ways and is a huge crop of potential things to go wrong at any time.

Im sure a communication with VT will be met with a serious followup as whilst they like all opperaters arnt immune from problems they are 1 of the best in sorting them out

 

[mbreckers]

I have just returned from Glasgow with my family, two who are wheelchair users.

I booked assistance 24 hours before travelling from Manchester Piccadilly to Glasgow with a change at Preston and all was fine at Piccadilly and central stations.

However when we changed at Preston there was no one to provide a ramp to disembark the northern service and again no one was there to assist us boarding the northern service on our return despite the conductor radioing ahead for assistance.

I can understand if the trains were late or we were routed to another platform but all seemed fine, virgins train crew staff members had to help my mother and auntie from the train whilst the platform staff member at Preston station seemed to be oblivious to what was going on.

Does anyone else have a similar experience on the rail network? and what could have caused the breakdown in communications at Preston station?..

many thanks.

Dont worry, you get used to being forgotten about when it comes to passenger assistance. Thats why im learning to drive

 

[Busaholic]

Because on the railway the infra structure is not consistent, where as bus stops are all being rebuilt to a known fixed standard.

I think it would be decades, if ever, before all bus stops are rebuilt. Many in rural areas are, after all, just a sign on a pole often without a pavement in sight!

 

[Bantamzen]

It has been alluded to earlier, but having inbuilt access ramps as with buses would at best be difficult given the varied nature of the UK's station platforms, and worst could be downright dangerous if not properly operated by a trained member of staff. For example some of the curved platforms at Shipley have quite considerable gaps (platforms 2 and 5 especially). If a member of public where to be allowed to use them automatically as with the doors it would only be a matter of time before an accident occured.

As far as I am aware all trains do have fold-away ramps for us by the guard, driver or platform staff. What needs to be ensured, and given mobile communications tech is not hard to achieve, is that staff are aware when assistance is required.

 

[transmanche]

Because on the railway the infra structure is not consistent, where as bus stops are all being rebuilt to a known fixed standard.
Plus the driver is invariably able to see exactly what the ramp is doing, unlike a train with numerous doors.

On TfL buses, the (powered) ramp is located at the centre exit doors. The driver relies on mirrors and CCTV to see what's going on - much the same as modern rolling stock fitted with CCTV.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Buses have inbuilt ramps, but outside of London they tend to be manual. The driver gets out and unfolds the ramp, then folds it up again when it's been used.

Trains have fold away ramps for the crew to use, so there's no reason why the wheelchair passenger should have had issues boarding a Northern train, even if the station assistance didn't turn up.

 

[rebmcr]

On the railway, a powered extending ramp would need to be safety-proven within the train's management software, so that traction power couldn't be taken when it was out-of-gauge. This could be a barrier to installation, especially on older types.