Direct trains to London- does everywhere need them?

[tbtc]

It is ridiculous to complain when extra services are being sought. Why is it stupid to have more services? If I were a resident of Hull, I would be very glad of the extra services

I'm sure the people of Hull were happy to get a direct daytime service to/from London when it was introduced, am sure the local MPs lobbied for it etc.

However, was a 100mph Turbostar efficient use of resources on the ECML?

Granted the trains are longer now, but there's a trade off between having long fast trains on main lines and having smaller slower ones that serve unique places.

The most efficient way of doing things would be to have a frequent Intercity service to "hub" stations on the main line (e.g. Doncaster, Crewe, Birmingham, Bristol), allowing connections with local services to smaller places. However, with the poitical pressure we have, we'll probably have many more proposals like the Grand Union service from Bradford (where a five coach 180 is too long for the "local" trip between Bradford, Halifax, Wakefield, Pontefract and Doncaster, but too short for the "mainline" trip down the ECML to London).

A "more local" version of this would be to ask the question "direct trains to Manchester Airport - does everywhere in northern England need them?"

 

[me123]

A "more local" version of this would be to ask the question "direct trains to Manchester Airport - does everywhere in northern England need them?"

Well, Manchester is the biggest airport outwith London. It provides services to a wide variety of destinations that smaller airports, and even the likes of Glasgow and Edinburgh airports, don't get service to. It also provides a good point for Transpennine North-West trains to reverse, and a good use of resources between [stn]MAN[/stn] and [stn]MIA[/stn].

Out of curiosity, do services from Sheffield, Leeds and York-MIA have to reverse at Piccadilly, or do they go a different route to the North West services?

 

[1D53]

Leeds and Sheff services reverse in the main platforms at Picc.

 

[tbtc]

Well, Manchester is the biggest airport outwith London. It provides services to a wide variety of destinations that smaller airports, and even the likes of Glasgow and Edinburgh airports, don't get service to. It also provides a good point for Transpennine North-West trains to reverse, and a good use of resources between [stn]MAN[/stn] and [stn]MIA[/stn].

Out of curiosity, do services from Sheffield, Leeds and York-MIA have to reverse at Piccadilly, or do they go a different route to the North West services?

It's a huge destination, very popular, and most people (including me!) wouldn't want to change trains with holiday luggage. I'm only mentioning it as it's restricted a number of "through" trains. For example, the hourly Liverpool - Manchester could have been joined to the hourly Manchester - Newcastle (if there was no airport), or the Cleethorpes - Manchester extended to the Lake District, that kind of thing. Southport to Middlesbrough. You get the idea.

To answer your question, yes, these services do reverse at Picadilly (which is sometimes a little awkward at busy times when paths are at a premium).

 

[me123]

With the trains reversing then, I can see that Liverpool-Newcastle is probably more beneficial than the current situation. I'd maybe like to see the Liverpool-Newcaslte service, with the others going to MIA. I personally think Liverpool-Newcastle would open up more direct travel opportunities, although I don't know if there's sufficient demand.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

I'm sure the people of Hull were happy to get a direct daytime service to/from London when it was introduced, am sure the local MPs lobbied for it etc.

However, was a 100mph Turbostar efficient use of resources on the ECML?

Granted the trains are longer now, but there's a trade off between having long fast trains on main lines and having smaller slower ones that serve unique places.

The most efficient way of doing things would be to have a frequent Intercity service to "hub" stations on the main line (e.g. Doncaster, Crewe, Birmingham, Bristol), allowing connections with local services to smaller places. However, with the poitical pressure we have, we'll probably have many more proposals like the Grand Union service from Bradford (where a five coach 180 is too long for the "local" trip between Bradford, Halifax, Wakefield, Pontefract and Doncaster, but too short for the "mainline" trip down the ECML to London).

A "more local" version of this would be to ask the question "direct trains to Manchester Airport - does everywhere in northern England need them?"

The point is being missed somewhat here, I think. Whether use of turbostars was efficient or not is irrelevant. There are many, many ways in which the whole thing would work better BUT the fact is that it has to exist to work at all. You have ended up by asking whether everywhere in the North needs a link to Manchester Airport. I would say that most passengers who join the train at Middlesbrough do not go all the way to the airport BUT the link exists should they need to do that. How many people from Scarborough use the train all the way to Liverpool? How many people from Norwich go to Liverpool? It is all irrelevant! The service exists and alows passengers to choose to use them if they so require.

Just as an aside, you advocate usage of "hubs" but seem to dismiss the TPE "hub" at Piccadilly by saying that the airport has stopped through services. Why not make use of the "hub" at Piccadilly?

 

[dojo]

Backtracking slightly, those who mentioned the 'Glasgow Trains' proposed Glasgow-Leeds service; is this not the one that in fact continues down to Nottingham? The other route being Glasgow-Liverpool via Preston...or is it a third route they proposed?

 

[me123]

Glasgow trains want to run two services:

One is Glasgow-Liverpool via Preston. They claim that this will be up and running a few months before their second service.

The other is Glasgow-Nottingham via Leeds.

I believe they have a market, but at the moment nothing seems to be happening (and they still hope to launch this year according to their website!). Sadly, I don't think it's going to happen soon, but the links will hopefully be created in the near future. I think there's demand, especially Glasgow-Leeds. As I've said elsewhere, running 4tpd GLC-LDS would be valuable for both cities and, I imagine, well used.