Direct Milton Keynes - Bedford services start!!!!!!!

[GatwickDepress]

Two people boarded the 1625, formed of a 153, from Fenny Stratford. Myself, after a hard day till jockeying, and a chap with a camera lenses so large I felt a mite inadequate! Quite a lot of people on the train as well, with a good few staying on to Milton Keynes. Truth be told I'm only doing this for the track. Even a cleaner running through the train at Bletchley which I thought was nice for a Sunday.

 

[Class 170101]

It does - as no trains usually run at all on Sundays. Would imagine they'll either run two weeks with the same units or swap after close of service Sunday.

Will needed to be swapped at some point or the units would run out of fuel.

 

[DarloRich]

It was a really successful day, the trains were very busy at times and the run to MK was very popular. Direct trains all day might have tempted even more people on board.

The earliest ones down to Bedford were very full and squashing rather than standing.

Well done to LM and thier staff for supporting this event. I complain often enough so they deserve plaudits for a good event.

PS it seems there was an early VTSP service to carry a local MP who wanted to travel but couldn't make any later trains! (Bloody Tories ( ) means i wasnt on the first service train between MK and Bedford!

It does - as no trains usually run at all on Sundays. Would imagine they'll either run two weeks with the same units or swap after close of service Sunday.

We have kept the same units - can they fuel at the depot in Bletchley?

 

[GatwickDepress]

I noted the train also had a special name on the departure boards. The Fireworks Flyer!

 

[DarloRich]

I noted the train also had a special name on the departure boards. The Fireworks Flyer!

that was the Saturday night late one - they forgot to change it!

 

[GatwickDepress]

that was the Saturday night late one - they forgot to change it!

Really? Well... uh, it was a historic throwback, obviously. A bit of nostalgia for the past.

 

[DarloRich]

Really? Well... uh, it was a historic throwback, obviously. A bit of nostalgia for the past.

there was a 23XX from Bedfor don Saturday night to get people back after the firework display - it was well loaded carrying about 120 according to one of the guards.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was a really successful day, the trains were very busy at times and the run to MK was very popular. Direct trains all day might have tempted even more people on board.

As I'm certain they would if it was the norm. People prefer trains over coaches, even if the train service is visibly inferior to the coach service in speed, comfort and frequency and is more expensive too.

 

[notadriver]

One problem with coaches are the drivers. You never know if you're going to get a Lewis Hamilton wannabe at the wheel !!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DarloRich]

As I'm certain they would if it was the norm. People prefer trains over coaches, even if the train service is visibly inferior to the coach service in speed, comfort and frequency and is more expensive too.

i think the main issue for the early trains was that the WCML is only 2 tracks until lunchtime on a Sunday.

Apparently demand was so high at times over the weekend taxis and coaches had to be used to move all the people!

Hopefully some of these people can be tempted back to the line on a regular basis

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is another good reason for making the line more self contained, e.g. by allocating it three D-trains (one as a spare normally, but able to be pressed into service when capacity boost is necessary).

 

[DarloRich]

This is another good reason for making the line more self contained, e.g. by allocating it three D-trains (one as a spare normally, but able to be pressed into service when capacity boost is necessary).

shudder.

Give me some locos and coaches any day

 

[Bletchleyite]

Were it wired they could have got the 319s out, I suppose. Islands of diesel operation in an area of electrification are never good.

 

[DarloRich]

Were it wired they could have got the 319s out, I suppose. Islands of diesel operation in an area of electrification are never good.

E-W electrification and SDO will change things - until then we will stagger on with the available units.

 

[A0]

I hope so. As someone who commutes from Milton Keynes Central to Fenny Stratford, it would make life so much easier...

Bletchley to Fenny Stratford is barely a mile though - and if you're destination's south of Fenny Stratford station it's less......

 

[DarloRich]

Bletchley to Fenny Stratford is barely a mile though - and if you're destination's south of Fenny Stratford station it's less......

what is the point you are making?

 

[A0]

what is the point you are making?

That it's not exactly a hardship that there isn't a direct MKC - Fenny Stratford Service......

And there is a very good MKC - Bletchley service.

 

[aal7]

I took the 1447 from MKC to Bow Brickhill, crossed the crossing and got the next train back from there (1522 I think). I enjoyed the trip; shame this can't be a more regular thing. I guess the WCML is much quieter on a Sunday. So much so that our trip from Bletchley to MKC was on the normally-southbound slow line.

I had to titter at some lads at Bletchley who got on the train to MKC, and realised it was the same train they'd just got off (presumably having arrived in Bletchley from somewhere along the Marston Vale). They were kicking themselves for getting off the train in the past and waiting for the next one to MKC. They decided to stay on the same train in future!

 

[DarloRich]

That it's not exactly a hardship that there isn't a direct MKC - Fenny Stratford Service......

And there is a very good MKC - Bletchley service.

Perhaps, although it is 20 minutes walk between the two stations. I do it often enough.

The bigger issue is the lack of a direct service from the stations on the line that are more than 20 minutes walk to Bletchley to Milton Keynes, the major employment centre in the area. Real people are put off by the change of trains.

I took the 1447 from MKC to Bow Brickhill, crossed the crossing and got the next train back from there (1522 I think). I enjoyed the trip; shame this can't be a more regular thing. I guess the WCML is much quieter on a Sunday. So much so that our trip from Bletchley to MKC was on the normally-southbound slow line.

The trains used the Bletchley Up&Down Relief 2 line then crossed ot the slows at Denbigh

I had to titter at some lads at Bletchley who got on the train to MKC, and realised it was the same train they'd just got off (presumably having arrived in Bletchley from somewhere along the Marston Vale). They were kicking themselves for getting off the train in the past and waiting for the next one to MKC. They decided to stay on the same train in future!

they will find themselves going back to Bedford any other day

 

[Bletchleyite]

And there is a very good MKC - Bletchley service.

There is a broadly adequate Bletchley-MKC service. I wouldn't call it "very good" - it's atrocious in city metro terms, and in the peaks has big gaps. It is enough to put people off, and drive instead/use the X5.

If the connections were coordinated it would work better, but they aren't, particularly in the peak when the regular Taktfahrplan does not operate.

 

[aal7]

The trains used the Bletchley Up&Down Relief 2 line then crossed ot the slows at Denbigh

Agreed, but the one I one on went north on the southbound slow line, which struck me as unusual (of course it may not be unusual!).

 

[DarloRich]

Agreed, but the one I one on went north on the southbound slow line, which struck me as unusual (of course it may not be unusual!).

Interesting - it cant have got to the slow line before Denbigh using P5 at Bletchley. I didn't know the lines were bi directionally signaled.

 

[86211]

The Up Slow is reversible signalling from Denbigh Hall to MKC and the 1535 ex Bletchley did run wrong direction over the Up Slow.

The 1646 from MKC used platform 2 - the others were in 2A.

 

[DarloRich]

The Up Slow is reversible signalling from Denbigh Hall to MKC and the 1535 ex Bletchley did run wrong direction over the Up Slow.

The 1646 from MKC used platform 2 - the others were in 2A.

you learn something every day! Cheers.

 

[A0]

There is a broadly adequate Bletchley-MKC service. I wouldn't call it "very good" - it's atrocious in city metro terms, and in the peaks has big gaps. It is enough to put people off, and drive instead/use the X5.

If the connections were coordinated it would work better, but they aren't, particularly in the peak when the regular Taktfahrplan does not operate.

Eh? The X5 goes nowhere near Bletchley.........

And MKC - Bletchley frequency is comparable to similar journeys in similar sized cities in the UK. You can't and shouldn't use London as the benchmark - it's not representative

 

[philjo]

Eh? The X5 goes nowhere near Bletchley.........

And MKC - Bletchley frequency is comparable to similar journeys in similar sized cities in the UK. You can't and shouldn't use London as the benchmark - it's not representative

I read it that he was meaning that people use the X5 bus from Bedford to MK instead of using the train as it isn't a through service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I read it that he was meaning that people use the X5 bus from Bedford to MK instead of using the train as it isn't a through service.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And MKC - Bletchley frequency is comparable to similar journeys in similar sized cities in the UK. You can't and shouldn't use London as the benchmark - it's not representative

MK is also not representative of other "similarly sized cities" in that travelling around it by car is extremely expedient, including going to Bedford on the new bypass, and so if the train journey is inconvenient nobody will use it. Which, if you look at the service outside school times on most days, is about the number of people that actually do use it.

This to some extent is true of public transport in MK as a whole - if you actually want people to use it, it will have to be very, very good indeed. Unfortunately, it isn't - under Arriva's stewardship the bus service is lackadaisically operated - dirty, scruffy, unpunctual (in a town with very little traffic congestion compared with other places) and generally poor with no sign of attention to detail nor consideration of how the market might be grown. The Bedford-Bletchley branch is perhaps a little better looked after than it was in the days of mucky London DMUs being used, but it is still not competitive.

 

[A0]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


MK is also not representative of other "similarly sized cities" in that travelling around it by car is extremely expedient, including going to Bedford on the new bypass, and so if the train journey is inconvenient nobody will use it. Which, if you look at the service outside school times on most days, is about the number of people that actually do use it.

This to some extent is true of public transport in MK as a whole - if you actually want people to use it, it will have to be very, very good indeed. Unfortunately, it isn't - under Arriva's stewardship the bus service is lackadaisically operated - dirty, scruffy, unpunctual (in a town with very little traffic congestion compared with other places) and generally poor with no sign of attention to detail nor consideration of how the market might be grown. The Bedford-Bletchley branch is perhaps a little better looked after than it was in the days of mucky London DMUs being used, but it is still not competitive.

Compare MK to Reading - they're a similar size.

Earley is a similar size and distance to Reading as Bletchley is to MK, yet Earley gets a half-hourly service. Bletchley gets 4/5 trains an hour (they're down one at the moment because the Southern service has been temporarily cancelled).

You seem to think there's a load of pent up demand for people wanting to travel from Bedford to MK and vice versa - I don't believe that to be the case.

The A421 improvement wasn't to improve MK - Bedford connectivity, it was to improve Bedford - M1 connectivity.

The X5 doesn't go anywhere near the A421 interestingly - Stagecoach have decided it's still better to use the A422.

And even with electrification, you're unlikely to make the train journey match the X5 from MK to Bedford. The train takes 43 mins on average to do Bedford - Bletchley - at best, you might be able to take 10 mins out of that with electrification (the MK services will have to be the stoppers), but you then have a reversal at Bletchley and the journey from Bletchley to MK, so that's going to be 10 mins. So your back to almost 45 mins - same as the X5, except the X5 will also pick you up or drop you off in the town centre near the shops - which doesn't happen at either Bedford or MK.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Compare MK to Reading - they're a similar size.

You can't compare them on simply size - MK's layout and ease of car travel means there is no penalty for travel by car. So if you want people to use public transport it has to be a cut above.

But the issue in any case isn't purely Bletchley-MKC (though it's worth noting Bletchley-Wolverton or vice versa is a nuisance as it often involves a change) - it's connectivity with the Bedford line.

Earley is a similar size and distance to Reading as Bletchley is to MK, yet Earley gets a half-hourly service.

Having used it I'd be the first to say that the Waterloo-Reading line has an utterly inadequate service - the trains are too short, the service too infrequent, the stations basic, old fashioned and dirty. It could do with the "LO treatment", really.

You seem to think there's a load of pent up demand for people wanting to travel from Bedford to MK and vice versa - I don't believe that to be the case.

There clearly is - it's in cars and on the X5. I don't think there is demand that isn't travelling, but there absolutely *is* demand that's using other modes.

The A421 improvement wasn't to improve MK - Bedford connectivity, it was to improve Bedford - M1 connectivity.

But it does improve MK-Bedford connectivity demonstrably.

The X5 doesn't go anywhere near the A421 interestingly - Stagecoach have decided it's still better to use the A422.

Possibly inertia, possibly issues on the 421 before J13 which will be resolved once it's all finally dualled.

And even with electrification, you're unlikely to make the train journey match the X5 from MK to Bedford. The train takes 43 mins on average to do Bedford - Bletchley - at best, you might be able to take 10 mins out of that with electrification (the MK services will have to be the stoppers), but you then have a reversal at Bletchley and the journey from Bletchley to MK, so that's going to be 10 mins. So your back to almost 45 mins - same as the X5, except the X5 will also pick you up or drop you off in the town centre near the shops - which doesn't happen at either Bedford or MK.

True, but people like trains, as they showed when they used the service last weekend.

 

[A0]

You can't compare them on simply size - MK's layout and ease of car travel means there is no penalty for travel by car. So if you want people to use public transport it has to be a cut above.

But the issue in any case isn't purely Bletchley-MKC (though it's worth noting Bletchley-Wolverton or vice versa is a nuisance as it often involves a change) - it's connectivity with the Bedford line.

The layout of MK also conspires against the train because the railway station isn't central so isn't convenient for either most of the areas of employment or the shops.

Having used it I'd be the first to say that the Waterloo-Reading line has an utterly inadequate service - the trains are too short, the service too infrequent, the stations basic, old fashioned and dirty. It could do with the "LO treatment", really.

It is an outer-suburban branch line, nothing like the 'inner suburban' type of operation LO has.

There clearly is - it's in cars and on the X5. I don't think there is demand that isn't travelling, but there absolutely *is* demand that's using other modes.

Nothing like the level you think - the X5 is half-hourly, is rarely full and, of course has other destinations which make it more attractive - specifically Oxford and Cambridge.

But it does improve MK-Bedford connectivity demonstrably.

The A 421 was about improving Bedford M1 connectivity, equally it's east-extension was about improving connectivity to the A1.

Improvements to connectivity to MK, Peterborough and various other places was an effect of that, not the sole or even primary aim.

Possibly inertia, possibly issues on the 421 before J13 which will be resolved once it's all finally dualled.

Unlikely even then - because the X5 serves coachway (Jn 14). Look at a map, as the crow flies it is a shorter journey to use the A422 - it also means the coach arrives in Bedford from the north which is better for serving the town centre.

True, but people like trains, as they showed when they used the service last weekend.

For a specific event - which attracted a lot of people where otherwise parking would have been an issue. Bedford ordinarily on a Saturday or Sunday attracts probably 10% of the numbers it did on the weekend.

You can't use a special event as the basis for an ongoing service. The Olympics was a case in point, there were various services laid on to support that, but they've not continued after the event ended.