Dinting - Hadfield

[Regeff]

There are only very few trains that run direct from Dinting to Hadfield and then on to Glossop on their journey from Manchester (and none at all in the MAN bound direction). I think it's now just the first trains from MAN (every day) and the last train from there (except Sunday). Didn't there used to be more trains routed that way until fairly recently, in the contra-peak direction if I remember correctly, and including HDF-DTG too?

Any ideas why and when they stopped?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Good question! So is it just the end of normal service 2356 (SuX) that currently runs directly between Dinting and Hadfield (not via Glossop)? And the 1004 (SuO) at the start of service on Sundays?

 

[Regeff]

Good question! So is it just the end of normal service 2356 (SuX) that currently runs directly between Dinting and Hadfield (not via Glossop)? And the 1004 (SuO) at the start of service on Sundays?

And the first service (SuX) at 0532 from MAN.

 

[oseyboy10]

I used to work for Northern and, from what I remember, part of the reason is that Glossop Council pay towards having a more frequent service into Glossop, so Northern oblige by routing the service that way and maintaining the roughly half-hourly frequency.

Like you say, I think the main booked exceptions now are the first service in the morning and the last one at night.

The other time you’ll sometimes see DTG > HAD > GLO is when a service is delayed. They can skip the first Glossop stop and pick it up on the return leg instead, so rather than DTG > GLO > HAD > GLO > DTG it runs DTG > HAD > GLO > DTG.

I don’t envy the driver and guard having to change ends every few minutes on that route

 

[py_megapixel]

Good question! So is it just the end of normal service 2356 (SuX) that currently runs directly between Dinting and Hadfield (not via Glossop)? And the 1004 (SuO) at the start of service on Sundays?

As an aside I hadn't previously realised the service on that line only started at about 10 on Sundays.
Even the Stoke line, much maligned for its huge gaps in the Sunday timetable, has an earlier first train towards Manchester than that.

I used to work for Northern and, from what I remember, part of the reason is that Glossop Council pay towards having a more frequent service into Glossop, so Northern oblige by routing the service that way and maintaining the roughly half-hourly frequency.

Do you mean faster, rather than more frequent? If trains routinely ran the other way (serving Hadfield and then terminating at Glossop) the frequency at Glossop would be the same, but the journey time to/from Manchester would be 5 minutes or so longer.

 

[oseyboy10]

As an aside I hadn't previously realised the service on that line only started at about 10 on Sundays.
Even the Stoke line, much maligned for its huge gaps in the Sunday timetable, has an earlier first train towards Manchester than that.


Do you mean faster, rather than more frequent? If trains routinely ran the other way (serving Hadfield and then terminating at Glossop) the frequency at Glossop would be the same, but the journey time to/from Manchester would be 5 minutes or so longer.

Yeah poor wording from me lol. Faster.

What I was told was that the council contributed towards the Glossop service, so Northern prioritised the current routing which gets Glossop passengers in/out of Manchester quicker rather than routinely going via Hadfield first.

So yeah, the overall frequency at Glossop wouldn’t necessarily change, it’s more about the journey time and service pattern into Glossop.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are only very few trains that run direct from Dinting to Hadfield and then on to Glossop on their journey from Manchester (and none at all in the MAN bound direction). I think it's now just the first trains from MAN (every day) and the last train from there (except Sunday). Didn't there used to be more trains routed that way until fairly recently, in the contra-peak direction if I remember correctly, and including HDF-DTG too?

Any ideas why and when they stopped?

The service operates as it does because there is a higher demand from Glossop to/from Manchester than smaller and poorer Hadfield. Thus Glossop has the shorter journey time. There is enough slack in the diagrams to do this, though if 350s get introduced this could well change.

The slight added bonus is that it also provides for direct Hadfield<->Glossop journeys, though I doubt these are large in number.

I remember it operating as a circular in the late 90s, I think it might well have changed direction at lunchtime so Glossop always got the quicker journey in the direction of the main flow.

 

[Regeff]

I used to work for Northern and, from what I remember, part of the reason is that Glossop Council pay towards having a more frequent service into Glossop, so Northern oblige by routing the service that way and maintaining the roughly half-hourly frequency.

Like you say, I think the main booked exceptions now are the first service in the morning and the last one at night.

The other time you’ll sometimes see DTG > HAD > GLO is when a service is delayed. They can skip the first Glossop stop and pick it up on the return leg instead, so rather than DTG > GLO > HAD > GLO > DTG it runs DTG > HAD > GLO > DTG.

I don’t envy the driver and guard having to change ends every few minutes on that route

Thanks. I've only ever done DTG-HDF direct once and that was on the last train out of MAN one night, so didn't get to see much for the full effect!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Friday at 17:03 ==

As an aside I hadn't previously realised the service on that line only started at about 10 on Sundays.
.

I might be wrong, but I think at one time (40+ years ago) there was no Sunday service at all on the line.

 

[TheSel]

Looks to be a 'Covid' issue.

Attached are the Timetables issued May 2020 and May 2021. In the May 2020 issue, five Monday to Friday morning trains ran MAN - HDF - GLO - MAN and six evening ones ran MAN - GLO - HDF - MAN. In the May 2021 issue, there was just the one morning trip MAN - HDF - GLO.

It was to do with the reduced peak hour frequency. When half hourly, there's time to do MAN - GLO - HDF - GLO - MAN. When more frequent, a 'triangular' service had to run to accomodate the service on the single line sections.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

And the first service (SuX) at 0532 from MAN.

Thanks for clarifying. Yes, that one runs fast from Guide Bridge to Hadfield, via Dinting (obviously!) but without calling at Dinting.

 

[D6130]

smaller and poorer Hadfield. Thus Gl

A local station for local people!

For those who don't know, Hadfield was used for the exterior shots of 'Royston Vasey' in the TV comedy series 'The League of Gentlemen'.

 

[Regeff]

Looks to be a 'Covid' issue.

Attached are the Timetables issued May 2020 and May 2021. In the May 2020 issue, five Monday to Friday morning trains ran MAN - HDF - GLO - MAN and six evening ones ran MAN - GLO - HDF - MAN. In the May 2021 issue, there was just the one morning trip MAN - HDF - GLO.

It was to do with the reduced peak hour frequency. When half hourly, there's time to do MAN - GLO - HDF - GLO - MAN. When more frequent, a 'triangular' service had to run to accomodate the service on the single line sections.

Thanks - that makes sense about the reduced peak service (now half hourly, same as off peak).

 

[D6975]

Back in 2015, I did the booked triangular move around tea time, Glossop via Hadfield, then direct back to Pic (2H83)

 

[Rail Ranger]

Thanks. I've only ever done DTG-HDF direct once and that was on the last train out of MAN one night, so didn't get to see much for the full effect!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Friday at 17:03 ==


I might be wrong, but I think at one time (40+ years ago) there was no Sunday service at all on the line.

As in the famous poster. Dinting Railway Centre. Engine in steam every Sunday. Train service Monday to Saturday.

 

[Whisky Papa]

In addition to the enhanced 'triangular' pre-Covid peak hour services mentioned at #9, the leaf-fall service at one time used to work in the same manner - I think this may be what @Bletchleyite is referring to in #7?

The line was renowned for poor adhesion, and an extra Cl 323 was allocated during leaf-fall, giving a long layover at Hadfield rather than the usual 3 minutes. I seem to recall the 323 was released by covering a short peak-only diagram on the Alderley Edge line with a DMU. This ran both peak and off-peak during the week, but not at weekends. I started my time with Northern at Glossop and Hadfield in late 2005, when this was still in force. I'm not sure it lasted much longer, and certainly not afer the major Northern timetable change in December 2008.

The single-track nature of the triangle meant that the inbound and outbound trains had to 'pass' on the different platforms at Dinting (as on the pre-Covid peak service), so in the morning trains ran direct from Piccadilly to Hadfield, then via Glossop back to Piccadilly, with the reverse pattern kicking in around around lunchtime. I think there was a train from Hadfield with no connection to Glossop at Dinting as the 20 minute service kicked in, but I'd need a timetable on front of me to refresh my memory.

There was at that time a steady flow of Hadfield - Glossop passengers, including quite decent numbers of school pupils, so this pattern suited that flow as well.

 

[jamess]

In addition to the enhanced 'triangular' pre-Covid peak hour services mentioned at #9, the leaf-fall service at one time used to work in the same manner - I think this may be what @Bletchleyite is referring to in #7?

The line was renowned for poor adhesion, and an extra Cl 323 was allocated during leaf-fall, giving a long layover at Hadfield rather than the usual 3 minutes. I seem to recall the 323 was released by covering a short peak-only diagram on the Alderley Edge line with a DMU. This ran both peak and off-peak during the week, but not at weekends. I started my time with Northern at Glossop and Hadfield in late 2005, when this was still in force. I'm not sure it lasted much longer, and certainly not afer the major Northern timetable change in December 2008.

The single-track nature of the triangle meant that the inbound and outbound trains had to 'pass' on the different platforms at Dinting (as on the pre-Covid peak service), so in the morning trains ran direct from Piccadilly to Hadfield, then via Glossop back to Piccadilly, with the reverse pattern kicking in around around lunchtime. I think there was a train from Hadfield with no connection to Glossop at Dinting as the 20 minute service kicked in, but I'd need a timetable on front of me to refresh my memory.

There was at that time a steady flow of Hadfield - Glossop passengers, including quite decent numbers of school pupils, so this pattern suited that flow as well.

I’m not sure trains can pass on the triangle at Dinting.

im sure the signals are all outside of the triangle, thus to allow a train into the triangle, the exit has to clear also

 

[Whisky Papa]

I’m not sure trains can pass on the triangle at Dinting.

im sure the signals are all outside of the triangle, thus to allow a train into the triangle, the exit has to clear also

Yes, on second thoughts I'm sure you are correct, they would have still passed at Dinting West Junction (at the west end of the viaduct) even on the 'triangular' pattern. I did work the odd morning shift at Dinting, you'd think I'd remember if both platforms were ever occupied at once!

I've just had a look at public timetable for December 2005. In the 20 minute headway morning peak, a train from Piccadilly bound directly to Hadfield would call at Dinting P1 at (eg) xx55, and having called at both Hadfield and Glossop, call at P2 at xx11 on its way back to Piccadilly, and at Dinting West Junction pass the next train to enter the triangle, calling Dinting at xx15.