Dining Cars?

[dunoon]

Just curious, did British Rail have proper dining cars in their fleet, I only rode a long haul British train (Glasgow-London) a few times, I only remember seeing buffet cars, were they there and I just missed them? Thanks

 

[Bullfield WEst]

I can remember in the 1960's, most long distance trains had Buffet Cars but the premier services such as the "Mid Day Scot" and Royal Scot" etc used to have "Restaurant Car and "Kitchen Cars"

 

[crewmeal]

Many trains had Buffet Restaurant cars in the middle of the train. This coach was half kitchen and a counter service. There used to be a 1st open Mk1 next to it for dining. The tables were usually laid up ready for a meal.

 

[Greenback]

There used to be a lot more restaurant cars in the 1960's and 1970's. Even cross country services used to have them!

I would imagine that most BR trains between London and Scotland would have had a restaurant, certainly in the days when journey times were over five hours.

 

[EM2]

My Dad always says the best breakfast he ever had was on an early morning service from St Pancras to Nottingham, in 1978.
Just off a flight from Dubai, tired and hungry, he treated himself to a Dining Car ticket and said everything, from the toast to the coffee was perfect.

 

[aylesbury]

In the seventies Iused the Euston Manchester services always a dedicated coach for dining ,plus a buffet car.

 

[jopsuk]

back when train use was low enough that the space could be spared..

 

[dunoon]

I guess that answers my question, Thanks

 

[Greenback]

back when train use was low enough that the space could be spared..

The implication that the withdrawal of dining cars is a result in the growth of travel is a little too simple.

The move towards fixed formations of inter city services in the 1980's certainly contributed to a fall in the number of restaurant car services, but many had bene withdrawn before that, particularly those that did not run at traditional breakfast or dinner times. Social reasons have also contributed.

Though it is perfectly fair to say that in modern times the idea that space should be taken with a kitchen and dining area would not be done when the trains are so full that people regularly stand in the vestibule.

 

[LE Greys]

There used to be a lot more restaurant cars in the 1960's and 1970's. Even cross country services used to have them!

I would imagine that most BR trains between London and Scotland would have had a restaurant, certainly in the days when journey times were over five hours.

Certainly the case. Right up to the end, BR used to boast that Intercity operated more dining cars than any other railway in the world. Some HSTs were even built with dual catering, a TRFB and a TRUK, to serve both markets. This didn't last long, though. The TRUKs mostly ended up as modular catering vehicles on the WCML and GEML, but some are in the Royal Train.

 

[87015]

back when train use was low enough that the space could be spared..

Most of the 80s Glasgow - Eustons even with full catering facilities would still have provided more standard seats a Pendolino with generally 6 Mk3 TSOs... although the 11 cars must come close.

 

[ainsworth74]

Most of the 80s Glasgow - Eustons even with full catering facilities would still have provided more standard seats a Pendolino with generally 6 Mk3 TSOs... although the 11 cars must come close.

Assuming 76 seats per standard class vehicle that train would have 456 standard class seats. A nine-car 390 has 294 seats (mostly because four of the five vehicles have disabled toilets/shop/cab taking space) and the eleven-car 390 has 444 standard class seats. So the eleven-car is only just short of the the six Mk3 TSOs, though with an hourly frequency through most of the day that's probably still a net increase in capacity compared with the 1980s.

The nine-car 390s really are woeful in terms of standard class capacity and it's a crying shame that they're not all being extended to eleven-car units.

 

[LE Greys]

Assuming 76 seats per standard class vehicle that train would have 456 standard class seats. A nine-car 390 has 294 seats (mostly because four of the five vehicles have disabled toilets/shop/cab taking space) and the eleven-car 390 has 444 standard class seats. So the eleven-car is only just short of the the six Mk3 TSOs, though with an hourly frequency through most of the day that's probably still a net increase in capacity compared with the 1980s.

The nine-car 390s really are woeful in terms of standard class capacity and it's a crying shame that they're not all being extended to eleven-car units.

Surely, they were also a step-down in capacity on the 15-coach behemoths that sometimes made their way to Glasgow behind a Duchess. The idea is that fast, light, frequent trains have effectively the same capacity as slow, heavy, infrequent ones.

Although I wholeheartedly agree that the Pendys should all be 11-car.