Digital Railcard Warning

[gray1404]

It appears that the industry would prefer people to switch to digital railcards to save on staff time and costs. However incidents like this will just put people off switching to a digital railcard and give the scheme a bad name.

The industry should be bending over backwards to accommodate people on rail services effected by the problem. This would include sending a brief to advise staff of the problem and ensuring that customers are not required to buy additional tickets in the mean time.

 

[bb21]

Well, several people by the sound of it: the idiot that wrote the spec, the idiot that coded it, the idiot that wrote the test spec and the idiot that carried out the testing. And let's not forget the idiot with zero IT knowledge who commissioned some fly by night company to develop the app in the first place.

Can we tone down the name-calling please? It's a little childish.

People may not have done a good job, or may even not be very good at their jobs, but that does not justify them being insulted.

You wouldn't want people to call you names if you made a mistake at work or, heaven forbid, were not very good at some aspects of your job, and neither do other people.

Criticise the mistake, not insult the person.

 

[bb21]

This would include sending a brief to advise staff of the problem and ensuring that customers are not required to buy additional tickets in the mean time.

Agreed.

A bit of common sense wouldn't do any harm.

Issue a staff notice and communicate to staff. The issue illustrated in the opening post is hardly difficult to deal with, as an interim measure until the bug is fixed.

All it requires is a bit of proactivity.

I cannot get onboard with any hysteria against advances in technology, although I can understand some of the resistance given how some such issues have tended to be dealt with in the past in a rather less customer-friendly approach than I would have liked.

 

[gray1404]

I agree. I too support advanced in technology. However, what concerns me if when the situation becomes anti passenger when it goes wrong.

 

[_toommm_]

The whole problem is though the functionality of the app is meant to be able to have the railcard as clickable wherein it turns orange with a scannnable QR code, a glowing NR logo for security and a lovely big photo. Without any of these I could well be accused of the railcard being fake, or someone else's leading to a possibility of accusations of identity fraud.

People are less likely to lose their railcard if it's digital due to it being on an expensive smartphone, and replacements are seemingly free as you can just generate a new code and disable/add New devices to your account.

The unavoidable truth though is that the app has left me £99.50 out of pocket what with my tickets from Sheff/Don to St Pancras/Kings Cross (due to having to buy new tickets and the RDG being slow to issue my promised refund of my old tickets and the difference between that and the new undiscounted ones), with an extra £30 lost with my unusable railcard.

 

[gray1404]

The whole problem is though the functionality of the app is meant to be able to have the railcard as clickable wherein it turns orange with a scannnable QR code, a glowing NR logo for security and a lovely big photo. Without any of these I could well be accused of the railcard being fake, or someone else's leading to a possibility of accusations of identity fraud.

People are less likely to lose their railcard if it's digital due to it being on an expensive smartphone, and replacements are seemingly free as you can just generate a new code and disable/add New devices to your account.

The unavoidable truth though is that the app has left me £99.50 out of pocket what with my tickets from Sheff/Don to St Pancras/Kings Cross (due to having to buy new tickets and the RDG being slow to issue my promised refund of my old tickets and the difference between that and the new undiscounted ones), with an extra £30 lost with my unusable railcard.

Have they still not issued your refund? I would make a formal complaint to them now and take it up with Transport Focus if you are still unhappy.

 

[talldave]

Can we tone down the name-calling please? It's a little childish.

People may not have done a good job, or may even not be very good at their jobs, but that does not justify them being insulted.

You wouldn't want people to call you names if you made a mistake at work or, heaven forbid, were not very good at some aspects of your job, and neither do other people.

Criticise the mistake, not insult the person.

Point taken, it was a somewhat tongue in cheek response to post #12.

 

[bb21]

I think there is clearly an issue surrounding project management, as given the symptoms, I would imagine it should have been an obvious area which warranted attention during usability testing stage before public release.

In general, software project management seems to be rather poor in this country with a shortage of expertise presumably at higher levels. This is not limited to this industry. Whether it were often down to time constraints from overly ambitious delivery plans, lack of funding, poor understanding of the requirements, lack of appreciation for likely scenarios, poor implementation of a robusting testing process, lack of appreciation for the impact on end-users, or simply poor knowledge of the project itself is difficult to say, but at least with the unique environment the railway industry operate in, an independent regulator should be granted the power to oversee such issues. It is not good enough that people should be left out of pocket through no fault of their own (often for extended periods of time due to the way refunds go through the system at most TOCs), or worse, for a mistake that is easily preventable.

 

[AlterEgo]

Surely a staff brief has been issued about this?

The OP's railcard clearly has the correct expiry date shown, so it's baffling he was advised to buy new tickets (by whom? RDG?).

 

[bb21]

I think one has, in the aftermath of these incidents, however I cannot remember where I saw it.

I hope these get efficiently distributed to all staff at all TOCs, if the industry do not want to scare customers off new technology with these poor experiences.

 

[talldave]

I think there is clearly an issue surrounding project management, as given the symptoms, I would imagine it should have been an obvious area which warranted attention during usability testing stage before public release.

In general, software project management seems to be rather poor in this country with a shortage of expertise presumably at higher levels. This is not limited to this industry. Whether it were often down to time constraints from overly ambitious delivery plans, lack of funding, poor understanding of the requirements, lack of appreciation for likely scenarios, poor implementation of a robusting testing process, lack of appreciation for the impact on end-users, or simply poor knowledge of the project itself is difficult to say, but at least with the unique environment the railway industry operate in, an independent regulator should be granted the power to oversee such issues. It is not good enough that people should be left out of pocket through no fault of their own (often for extended periods of time due to the way refunds go through the system at most TOCs), or worse, for a mistake that is easily preventable.

Totally agree. With a background in software engineering, I find these kind of examples very depressing. It's also sad that such basic functionality appears to be so challenging when, in reality, the capabilities of today's smartphones (geo-location, NFC, fingerprint recognition, etc) could offer a very user friendly experience in the areas of travel planning, flexible payment options, e-ticket support etc..

That said, it's not a problem exclusive to the rail industry. The energy industry, for example, is another that struggles with technological progress. Perhaps government meddling is a common theme here?

 

[Clip]

Please see post #14

 

[krus_aragon]

The energy industry, for example, is another that struggles with technological progress. Perhaps government meddling is a common theme here?

Yes, specifically the meddling from a distance. (Wanting energy generation to be done privately, but still shoving thier oar in regularly.) Compare with the development of new power station technology by the CEGB which could absorb risk with government backing, and get things done quicker. (New EPR nuclear reactor design from the private sector under government review from 2006 to 2013. Since then, horse trading and shenanigans between the private sector and government over who takes the financial risk of construction, with the private aector wanting a guaranteed purchase price. Alternative (AP1000) nuclear reactor design took from 2006 to 2017 to get type approval.)

 

[_toommm_]

Surely a staff brief has been issued about this?

The OP's railcard clearly has the correct expiry date shown, so it's baffling he was advised to buy new tickets (by whom? RDG?).

The railcard helpline people told me too, and this was by a supervisor. I phoned up Tuesday so kinda say: either make it work or what am I to do as I'm not being penalty fared or risking getting stuck in London with my dodgy railcard, at which point two supervisors made this point.

It was escalated and I've been told I'll have my refund sent via a cheque on Monday, and then that cheque has to clear into my bank account. Bit long winded for a massive coding error. I was also told I'd have my railcard extended but it almost feels like I'm the one made to feel bad about it not working.

The app is finally working but I'm having to wait a week for a 99.50 refund with no compensation. You'd think if they can take my money online with my card number they could reverse it

 

[Wallsendmag]

Why on earth didn't you just X/S the ticket to the undiscounted price?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[_toommm_]

I went to Sheffield station and was told they can't do that due to it 'not being available on the computer' just as a Cheshire Day Ranger apparently can't be sold from there (it can, and yes I know you can't use it from there).

My two other most frequented stations are meadowhall (where I work) and Rotherham (where I live) but whenever I'm there it's past 9pm at night and so they're closed.

 

[sheff1]

I went to Sheffield station and was told they can't do that due to it 'not being available on the computer' just as a Cheshire Day Ranger apparently can't be sold from there (it can, and yes I know you can't use it from there).

No surprise there. Sheffield station 'can't' do lots of things which other booking offices can do in seconds. After the latest fiasco there a few months back I was given a full refund and assured that staff would be briefed on the correct procedure. As I was first told the same 20+ years ago, and nothing has changed in the interim, I am not holding my breath.

 

[AlterEgo]

The railcard helpline people told me too, and this was by a supervisor. I phoned up Tuesday so kinda say: either make it work or what am I to do as I'm not being penalty fared or risking getting stuck in London with my dodgy railcard, at which point two supervisors made this point.

It was escalated and I've been told I'll have my refund sent via a cheque on Monday, and then that cheque has to clear into my bank account. Bit long winded for a massive coding error. I was also told I'd have my railcard extended but it almost feels like I'm the one made to feel bad about it not working.

The app is finally working but I'm having to wait a week for a 99.50 refund with no compensation. You'd think if they can take my money online with my card number they could reverse it

I know it is easy for me to say now, but there is no way I would have a purchased a new ticket. I'd just have travelled, safe in the knowledge I had a valid railcard. Mind you, I am confident in negotiating with tricky staff and not everyone has that appetite.

I'm shocked they advised you that.

 

[_toommm_]

I know it is easy for me to say now, but there is no way I would have a purchased a new ticket. I'd just have travelled, safe in the knowledge I had a valid railcard. Mind you, I am confident in negotiating with tricky staff and not everyone has that appetite.

I'm shocked they advised you that.

If it was a local journey I would have risked it because most people buy on board where I live but definitely not risking paying a walk up fare to STP or KGX

 

[Merseysider]

oddly enough the guard on my LM up to Liverpool is telling all the railcard-holding passengers about the app and that we "should" get a digital railcard upon expiry.

Nope.

 

[jon0844]

Once any bugs are ironed out, I fully expect the digital railcard to be exceptionally popular.

 

[mrmartin]

Yes, I'd have probably saved in the region of £500 if it has been available when I was 16-25. Costs a fortune to have it paper then leave it at home, realised it's expired a day or two ago (this got me every time), had a wallet stolen, etc.

 

[island]

Why on earth didn't you just X/S the ticket to the undiscounted price?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Excesses from Railcard-discounted tickets to full fare are not meant to be issued.

 

[gray1404]

Once any bugs are ironed out, I fully expect the digital railcard to be exceptionally popular.

I expect so too. There will be some people (like myself) who would always prefer for as long as is possible, to have a physical railcard. However, there will be a large group of people who would prefer it have it on an app. I would say that for those who would prefer it on an app then they would wait a while longer (say 6 to 12 months to be safe) for the bugs and common problems to be ironed out before going digital. I am including in that what the response will be at ground level, on the part of the TOCs, when something goes wrong.

(Which in real terms for would translate to 1 more renewal having a physical railcard.)

 

[jon0844]

Next week there will be all-new leaflets for railcards to be put in stations, which I assume will 'sell' the new digital railcard as something you can get immediately.

I'd assume the uptake will be quite high, if only because people won't want to get a passport photo (usually at least £5 from a booth) and fill in paperwork, compared to going to an app store...

 

[Merseysider]

I'm willing to bet we'll have someone posting in the Disputes section within a month because of problems with the Railcard app

 

[island]

Next week there will be all-new leaflets for railcards to be put in stations, which I assume will 'sell' the new digital railcard as something you can get immediately.

I'd assume the uptake will be quite high, if only because people won't want to get a passport photo (usually at least £5 from a booth) and fill in paperwork, compared to going to an app store...

Given that only two of the numerous Railcards require photos, I am not sure how much of an obstacle that is.

 

[jon0844]

Given that only two of the numerous Railcards require photos, I am not sure how much of an obstacle that is.

Form filling, travelling from a station without a ticket office open, long queues..

Or download an app and get up and running within minutes?

I think that even though there are potential issues with a digital railcard, the uptake is going to be very high. Most likely the YPRC one being especially popular.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Given that only two of the numerous Railcards require photos, I am not sure how much of an obstacle that is.

I suspect the answer is rather more of an obstacle than you believe to be the case.

Plus it's easy to just to buy it there and then on your mobile. No visit to a ticket office required, no queuing, no paper form to fill in, no need to wait a few days for it to arrive in the post, no need to plan ahead.

I expect that the Digital Railcards will be a big success, so long as they're aren't any significant further technical hiccups.

 

[Clip]

I'm willing to bet we'll have someone posting in the Disputes section within a month because of problems with the Railcard app

Like we still do with those on papercards yes?