Digital Fraud Team West Midlands Trains

[Sandress]

Hello everybody.
On September 17, I received the first email which said that I, being an adult, bought a ticket for a child on 20.04.2024, although at that time I was actually a child. I did not notice this letter, after which I received another one which I also did not notice, it said that they conducted an investigation and it turned out that I bought tickets 68 times using a gold card although I did not have one and now they want me to pay them £6191 or attach evidence that I am not guilty. This letter also ended up in spam and I did not notice it. After which I received a letter notifying me of the escalation of the case and the case will be transferred to the prosecutor's office on 8.10.2024. I responded to this letter that I did not notice the 2 previous letters, and that on 20.04.2024 I was a child and am ready to provide evidence, I also said that I bought more tickets for my friend who is not yet 16 years old since she does not have her own card. That was the end of my response. Also I want to say that I have actually bought tickets with a gold card many times without having one. Do I really have to pay £6191 to them or will I go to jail or what will happen to me? I have also attached screenshots. Can somebody help me?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Also I want to say that I have actually bought tickets with a gold card many times without having one.

@Sandress. Welcome to the forum. Just what journeys have supposedly been made using the inappropriate "Gold Card" discounts, for the amount being demanded to be quite so much? Birmingham area to/from London?

 

[Sandress]

@Sandress. Welcome to the forum. Just what journeys have supposedly been made using the inappropriate "Gold Card" discounts, for the amount being demanded to be quite so much? Birmingham area to/from London?

Yes sir

 

[GadgetMan]

Hello everybody.
On September 17, I received the first email which said that I, being an adult, bought a ticket for a child on 20.04.2024, although at that time I was actually a child. I did not notice this letter, after which I received another one which I also did not notice, it said that they conducted an investigation and it turned out that I bought tickets 68 times using a gold card although I did not have one and now they want me to pay them £6191 or attach evidence that I am not guilty. This letter also ended up in spam and I did not notice it. After which I received a letter notifying me of the escalation of the case and the case will be transferred to the prosecutor's office on 8.10.2024. I responded to this letter that I did not notice the 2 previous letters, and that on 20.04.2024 I was a child and am ready to provide evidence, I also said that I bought more tickets for my friend who is not yet 16 years old since she does not have her own card. That was the end of my response. Also I want to say that I have actually bought tickets with a gold card many times without having one. Do I really have to pay £6191 to them or will I go to jail or what will happen to me? I have also attached screenshots. Can somebody help me?

Did you buy tickets for your child friend before turning 16 too, or did this arrangement only begin after your 16th birthday?

Also, the friends tickets, was it the same journey you normally travel?

 

[Sandress]

Did you buy tickets for your child friend before turning 16 too, or did this arrangement only begin after your 16th birthday?

Also, the friends tickets, was it the same journey you normally travel?

So, my birthday was in May, before that i was 15y.o. After that i meet the girlfriend and she started to travel to me, she was 15y.o. before the september. And i used gold card on these tickets many times, but i don't have the gold card.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

And i used gold card on these tickets many times, but i don't have the gold card.

You do realise that a 16-17 railcard would likely have given you bigger (and legitimate) discounts than a Gold card? In view of the amounts involved, will let others on here advise on how you should now take things forward.

 

[185]

You do realise that a 16-17 railcard would likely have given you bigger (and legitimate) discounts than a Gold card? In view of the amounts involved, will let others on here advise on how you should now take things forward.

Not the case... Child-Gold Card often works out as £2-ish for a Milton Keynes to Euston single ticket, as opposed to £8ish for child or with a 16-17.

 

[AlterEgo]

You should talk to your parent/s or guardian about this as you appear to be just 16 years old.

 

[Haywain]

Do I really have to pay £6191 to them or will I go to jail or what will happen to me? I have also attached screenshots. Can somebody help me?

First, is it correct that you are now 16 years old? If so, and you are spending a significant amount of train fares as is suggested here, you should get yourself a 16-17 Saver which gives you a legitimate 50% discount on train fares. If you have been purchasing tickets with a Gold Card discount then it is hardly surprising that the train company will be looking to recover the money that you have underpaid. However, there is no real chance of you going to jail over this. It is actually fairly unlikely you will even be prosecuted, as it relatively unusual for train companies to bring prosecutions against minors. You must discuss this with your parents though. And from this point forward you need to be paying the correct fare for all of your journeys.

 

[Sandress]

First, is it correct that you are now 16 years old? If so, and you are spending a significant amount of train fares as is suggested here, you should get yourself a 16-17 Saver which gives you a legitimate 50% discount on train fares. If you have been purchasing tickets with a Gold Card discount then it is hardly surprising that the train company will be looking to recover the money that you have underpaid. However, there is no real chance of you going to jail over this. It is actually fairly unlikely you will even be prosecuted, as it relatively unusual for train companies to bring prosecutions against minors. You must discuss this with your parents though. And from this point forward you need to be paying the correct fare for all of your journeys.

Thank you, ill talk, but i am Ukrainian as mu parents and they will know not much more than me, the sum that company want me to pay is 6191£ what is big sum, so what am i need to do, sent my details or just wait for the prosecutor will email me?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2024 ==

You do realise that a 16-17 railcard would likely have given you bigger (and legitimate) discounts than a Gold card? In view of the amounts involved, will let others on here advise on how you should now take things forward.

Thank you, but can you tell me what to do is better, to wait, send the details or go to the lawyer, and am i need to pay 6191£, or 1000£ is the maximum what i can pay?

 

[Haywain]

but i am Ukrainian as mu parents and they will know not much more than me, the sum that company want me to pay is 6191£ what is big sum,

It is important to talk to them as they may be contacted instead of you, and because you don't want this situation to be made worse by them finding out without you telling them first.

so what am i need to do, sent my details or just wait for the prosecutor will email me?

I think at the moment all that you can do is wait and see what happens. It may be beneficial to send proof of your age to the train company, but I am not sure about that - others may have a different opinion.

 

[Sandress]

It is important to talk to them as they may be contacted instead of you, and because you don't want this situation to be made worse by them finding out without you telling them first.

I think at the moment all that you can do is wait and see what happens. It may be beneficial to send proof of your age to the train company, but I am not sure about that - others may have a different opinion.

ok thank you so much

 

[transportphoto]

It’s probably worth highlighting your true age to the prosecutions/fraud team.

 

[Sandress]

It’s probably worth highlighting your true age to the prosecutions/fraud team.

ok thank you, and do you know will i pay more then 1000 or not?

 

[Haywain]

ok thank you, and do you know will i pay more then 1000 or not?

Making it clear what age you are may make a difference in how they choose to proceed.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

One extra thing to note: it is very important that you always pay the right fare in future. That's because if there's to be any chance of the railway not demanding all of the £6191, they will be doing you a favour - but if the railway think you have not learnt how important it is to pay the right fare, then they won't be willing to let you off.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello everybody.
On September 17, I received the first email which said that I, being an adult, bought a ticket for a child on 20.04.2024, although at that time I was actually a child. I did not notice this letter, after which I received another one which I also did not notice, it said that they conducted an investigation and it turned out that I bought tickets 68 times using a gold card although I did not have one and now they want me to pay them £6191 or attach evidence that I am not guilty. This letter also ended up in spam and I did not notice it. After which I received a letter notifying me of the escalation of the case and the case will be transferred to the prosecutor's office on 8.10.2024. I responded to this letter that I did not notice the 2 previous letters, and that on 20.04.2024 I was a child and am ready to provide evidence, I also said that I bought more tickets for my friend who is not yet 16 years old since she does not have her own card. That was the end of my response. Also I want to say that I have actually bought tickets with a gold card many times without having one. Do I really have to pay £6191 to them or will I go to jail or what will happen to me? I have also attached screenshots. Can somebody help me?

In addition to the advice you have already been given I would say that this is a very serious situation and you need to engage with the railway about what you have been doing and how to resolve this.

I suspect there is a good chance that they would not actively prosecute someone who is under 18 years of age - so it is important that you tell them your age and sate (ideally with proof) your date of birth.

If they did prosecute you I think maximum fine is £1000, but on top of that there would be other court costs, surcharges, and costs the railway company would ask for. The fine is just the punishment element of it. You would not go to prison.

But it sounds like they want a sum of money equivalent to the fares you have not been paying properly (well the fares you have been evading), instead of persecuting you - and £6,191 is a lot of money so presumably they have detected a lot of travel that they think you have been doing without the correct ticket, from investigating your purchase history.

If some of this travel was tickets for your friend who is under 16 and entitled to a child rate ticket then you need to look at your own records and list that travel out, and send them some supporting evidence that it was for someone else and their proof of age (perhaps a statement from them saying they made those journeys) - on no account lie about any of this.

For your own travel provide the evidence that you were under 16 years of age until 20 / 04 / 2024 (or whenever your birthday was) - make it easy for them to see this by sending a copy of the proof of age / date of birth.

So then calculate how much travel from the time you turned 16 you have undertaken with the wrong ticket / gold card reduction you are not entitled to - that is then the sum you need to try to perused them is what you owe.

But my advice would be to engage with them, make it clear you are prepared to try and pay what you owe, and make the information accurate - so dates and journeys between x and y that you made when you should have paid an adult fare. Presumably by studying your own ticket buying history you can make a list?

Alternatively ask them to supply you with a list of the travel that they believe makes up the £6k worth of fares so that you can check that.

If you engage with them there is a good chance they will move away from prosecuting you, or threatening to do so.

The reason for telling your parents is to explain to them what has happened, that you are in trouble, and that it is going to require some money to sort this out.

And for goodness sake buy a railcard so that you can get a legitimate fare reduction on your tickets from this point onwards and make sure you have 100% correct ticket for travel from now on. Or stop using trains.

If you want to draft up what you want to write to them next you could post that here for people to check before you send it.

 

[Sandress]

In addition to the advice you have already been given I would say that this is a very serious situation and you need to engage with the railway about what you have been doing and how to resolve this.

I suspect there is a good chance that they would not actively prosecute someone who is under 18 years of age - so it is important that you tell them your age and sate (ideally with proof) your date of birth.

If they did prosecute you I think maximum fine is £1000, but on top of that there would be other court costs, surcharges, and costs the railway company would ask for. The fine is just the punishment element of it. You would not go to prison.

But it sounds like they want a sum of money equivalent to the fares you have not been paying properly (well the fares you have been evading), instead of persecuting you - and £6,191 is a lot of money so presumably they have detected a lot of travel that they think you have been doing without the correct ticket, from investigating your purchase history.

If some of this travel was tickets for your friend who is under 16 and entitled to a child rate ticket then you need to look at your own records and list that travel out, and send them some supporting evidence that it was for someone else and their proof of age (perhaps a statement from them saying they made those journeys) - on no account lie about any of this.

For your own travel provide the evidence that you were under 16 years of age until 20 / 04 / 2024 (or whenever your birthday was) - make it easy for them to see this by sending a copy of the proof of age / date of birth.

So then calculate how much travel from the time you turned 16 you have undertaken with the wrong ticket / gold card reduction you are not entitled to - that is then the sum you need to try to perused them is what you owe.

But my advice would be to engage with them, make it clear you are prepared to try and pay what you owe, and make the information accurate - so dates and journeys between x and y that you made when you should have paid an adult fare. Presumably by studying your own ticket buying history you can make a list?

Alternatively ask them to supply you with a list of the travel that they believe makes up the £6k worth of fares so that you can check that.

If you engage with them there is a good chance they will move away from prosecuting you, or threatening to do so.

The reason for telling your parents is to explain to them what has happened, that you are in trouble, and that it is going to require some money to sort this out.

And for goodness sake buy a railcard so that you can get a legitimate fare reduction on your tickets from this point onwards and make sure you have 100% correct ticket for travel from now on. Or stop using trains.

If you want to draft up what you want to write to them next you could post that here for people to check before you send it.

Hello, so guys how can i know is that real, because that team want me to pay fee by the account number and sort code, not by the website, it is looks like fishing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Oct 2024 ==

Hello, so guys how can i know is that real, because that team want me to pay fee by the account number and sort code, not by the website, it is looks like fishing.

because how i know they must talk to me officially and i need to pay by the website isn't it?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello, so guys how can i know is that real, because that team want me to pay fee by the account number and sort code, not by the website, it is looks like fishing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Oct 2024 ==


because how i know they must talk to me officially and i need to pay by the website isn't it?

You may be correct to be concerned. Usually payment requests are via a payment portal. You could try running their customer services on a number you check on line to see if they can verify this.

 

[some bloke]

how can i know is that real, because that team want me to pay fee by the account number and sort code, not by the website, it is looks like fishing.

Do you mean they have sent you another letter/email?

If yes, then could you please post it here, again with identifying details removed?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

You may be correct to be concerned. Usually payment requests are via a payment portal. You could try running their customer services on a number you check on line to see if they can verify this.

For general WMT enquiries you could ring 03333 110039.

 

[Cuthbert]

You can also contact them via email.
DigitalFraudTeam@WMTrains.co.uk

Whichthe WMR website under Customer Service

Customer services

Find out how to contact us and keep up to date with West Midlands Railway.

www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk

 

[reb0118]

Hello, so guys how can i know is that real.

Ask yourself this: is the request/requirement randomly generated or has it occurred due to an action/interaction that you initiated (by being reported for a travelling irregularity)?

 

[WesternLancer]

Ask yourself this: is the request/requirement randomly generated or has it occurred due to an action/interaction that you initiated (by being reported for a travelling irregularity)?

Even if it is legit it’s not usual for railway company to give out a bank account number to transfer funds for an out of court settlement. They usually use payment portals. So this does need checking. (OPs email could have been hacked for example)

So op needs to verify this request by contactingWMR independently using details posted above I suggest.

 

[Sandress]

You may be correct to be concerned. Usually payment requests are via a payment portal. You could try running their customer services on a number you check on line to see if they can verify this.

Do you mean they have sent you another letter/email?

If yes, then could you please post it here, again with identifying details removed?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Oct 2024 ==

Even if it is legit it’s not usual for railway company to give out a bank account number to transfer funds for an out of court settlement. They usually use payment portals. So this does need checking. (OPs email could have been hacked for example)

So op needs to verify this request by contactingWMR independently using details posted above I suggest.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think that is probably genuine, though a telephone call with customer services may be prudent to verify it. Some companies don't help themselves, though, in terms of doing stuff like this that has a slightly iffy feel to it.

 

[some bloke]

So what's the situation? Did you get confirmation that they accept your statement about your age? Does the amount look about right?

 

[Sandress]

So what's the situation? Did you get confirmation that they accept your statement about your age? Does the amount look about right?

I am agree with the amount but, i don't understand why do they want me to pay not by website, when i checked sort code it is owned by lloid bank

 

[Alex C.]

I think that is probably genuine, though a telephone call with customer services may be prudent to verify it. Some companies don't help themselves, though, in terms of doing stuff like this that has a slightly iffy feel to it.

I agree, it appears they're also asking for payments to be made to WMT Ltd - this is not a company which exists, and the actual company is West Midlands Trains Limited. If you add the details they've provided in a banking app it will suggest that there is no match.

It is likely to be genuine based on the correspondence but in this case I would suggest verifying using an out of band method of communication - try their customer service phone number initially (from the website) and ask them to verify the bank details, if they can't help you may have to write to the prosecutions team.

 

[Sandress]

I agree, it appears they're also asking for payments to be made to WMT Ltd - this is not a company which exists, and the actual company is West Midlands Trains Limited. If you add the details they've provided in a banking app it will suggest that there is no match.

It is likely to be genuine based on the correspondence but in this case I would suggest verifying using an out of band method of communication - try their customer service phone number initially (from the website), if they can't help you may have to write to the prosecutions team.

ok thank you