Difficulty understanding specific permitted route example

[tjmarshy]

Hi, I've notice that going from:
Ash Vale --> Vauxhall (changing at Woking & Clapham Junction) is permitted
Ash Vale --> Vauxhall (changing at Waterloo) is not permitted
But Farnborough --> Vauxhall (changing at Waterloo) is permitted even though that train also stops at Woking? So why are you not forced to change at Woking and Clapham

So any help understanding why from Farnborough you can double back from Waterloo but not from Ash Vale (and Aldershot) would be greatly appreciated as this really limits what trains can be taken around rush hour into London

 

[miklcct]

What is the route of the ticket?

 

[tjmarshy]

What is the route of the ticket?

It is just any permitted route between Ash Vale and Vauxhall or any permitted route between Farnborough and Vauxhall, tickets are the same except starting destination

 

[Watershed]

As far as I can see, changing at Waterloo is permitted for both origins. Which site/app are you using that is suggesting otherwise?

 

[tjmarshy]

I thought the same hence my confusion! I've checked with national rail, south western rail and Trainline.

The route is shown on national rail and southwestern but for both it shows the tickets are not available for any route through Waterloo. And the routes are not shown at all on Trainline

Which from checking this forum indicates that it is not a permitted route if you aren't allowed to purchase them.

Thanks for the help

 

[miklcct]

As far as I can see, changing at Waterloo is permitted for both origins. Which site/app are you using that is suggesting otherwise?

There is a negative easement forbidding changing at Waterloo at Vauxhall.

030230 Customers travelling from Vauxhall to Clapham Junction and beyond may not travel via
London Waterloo. This circuitous route easement applies in both directions.

 

[tjmarshy]

There is a negative easement forbidding changing at Waterloo at Vauxhall.

Thanks for the response and I understand the easement from other posts on this forum, however why is it that traveling from Farnborough it is permitted?

That is the confusion as those tickets are available for purchase and shown on all websites as permitted

 

[MrJeeves]

I get the option of Ash Vale to Vauxhall via Waterloo when using TrainSplit. All of these services appear to be fast from Woking to Waterloo.

 

[tjmarshy]

I get the option of Ash Vale to Vauxhall via Waterloo when using TrainSplit. All of these services appear to be fast from Woking to Waterloo.

View attachment 150919

Is that because you are using train split, so essentially buying two independent tickets for each leg. So no longer one fare?

 

[30907]

Is that because you are using train split, so essentially buying two independent tickets for each leg. So no longer one fare?

The attachment shows only one ticket.

 

[MrJeeves]

Is that because you are using train split, so essentially buying two independent tickets for each leg. So no longer one fare?

As @30907 said, you don't have to choose split tickets. My search was done with split tickets disabled in the advanced options, in fact:

 

[tjmarshy]

So is there a way to get a definitive answer as there is conflicting information. See below from national rail explicitly stating that it is not a permitted route But trainsplit indicating it is valid. I will likely be doing this route very regularly and don't want to risk penalty fare

 

[Paul Kelly]

My opinion FWIW: the negative easement in the routeing guide (quoted in post 6 above) is not enforceable because the validity from Waterloo to Vauxhall is due to the fact that both stations are in the London Terminals fares group, and fares groups as a concept are totally outside the routeing guide. Other opinions may vary!