Different train types (Pacer + 150) on one train

[stuartl]

Forgive me if I have the terminology wrong but I'm not a train expert.

This morning I travelled from Sheffield to Barnsley on the 09:06.
When I got to Sheffield the train was listed to go from platform 1B instead of the more usual 4. The reason soon became obvious.

About 09:00 a Pacer duly arrived but no one was allowed to board. Then another train which was waiting on platform 1A slowly drew up and coupled to the pacer. However this was a class 150, 150268.

Does this happen often?
It caused some problems for the ticket collector. I was on the Pacer section and he didn't get to check tickets until after Wombwell as he had started on the other train and there was no corridor connection. At Barnsley he moved back to the 150268 to check tickets.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Happens all the time in Manchester.

 

[mafeu]

Strangely the 17.42 service from Goole to Bridlington arrived with a locked out Pacer yesterday. I suspect being towed to Hull or Bridlington for later duties as it normally runs a two car Sprinter.

 

[142094]

It used to be the case that the guard had to travel in the rearmost unit for safety reasons (i.e. not having a member of staff on a unit in passenger service was a no-no). Certainly this was causing problems with Northern on Merseyside as fare evaders cottoned on to this and would only use the front unit. However, I know that Northern do employ ticket-selling staff onboard who have a different role to the guard, so perhaps they were assisting the guard on the rear unit in checking tickets then boarded the front one?

Sometimes if the two units were not needed due to low passenger numbers, the rear one could be locked out of use so the guard would only need to travel in the front unit.

 

[PHILIPE]

Instances of this are rife on FGW also when a 150/1 or 143 are coupled to a gangwayed unit, i.e. 150/2. 153 or 158.

 

[Rapidash]

Yeah, 143 + 153 is very common down here.

I may have been mistaken it, but I think I have seen the Sproglings Express as a 150 +153 + 143 combo before.

 

[stuartl]

Thanks for all your replies, very interesting.

 

[Tracky]

I'm always suprised that northern don't try and match gangwayed stock. While it is understandable to strengthen a 15x with a pacer it is not uncommon to see a 150/1 with a 150/2 or 156.

Another regular sight, London Midland often use a 170-153 combo on the Birmingham - Walsall - Rugeley trains.

 

[alexl92]

Northern sometimes pair up a 144 with a 158 for the Leeds - Sheffield or Nottingham services, which seems cruel to those who have to travel on the 144 but more than that, an absolute waste of the better acceleration etc of the 158. I bet it doesn't help fuel economy on the 158 either.

 

[Haydn1971]

Northern sometimes pair up a 144 with a 158 for the Leeds - Sheffield or Nottingham services, which seems cruel to those who have to travel on the 144 but more than that, an absolute waste of the better acceleration etc of the 158. I bet it doesn't help fuel economy on the 158 either.

More often it's a 150 plus a 153, given its a semi-fast, it's annoying not to get a more comfortable 158

 

[edwin_m]

I've never seen a 144 in Nottingham and I don't believe they are cleared that far south. Does this 158+144 pairing operate south of Sheffield?

 

[Haydn1971]

I'm not sure I've seen a 158+144 pairing in regular use

 

[jopsuk]

The Pacers and Sprinters were specified as being able to operate with one another, and the Turbostars were specified to be compatible as well, though I've not heard of them working with anything other than Class 153 and 158.

 

[455driver]

I may have been mistaken it, but I think I have seen the Sproglings Express as a 150 +153 + 143 combo before.

Anything is possible on that.
It all depends what is allocated to the normal service (usually 2x143) and what is used to strengthen it (usually a 150), so if it is formed of a 143+153 and a 150 is used to strengthen it then it will be 143+153+150.

I have seen a 158 on the train before but cant remember what else was with it.

 

[alexl92]

I'm not sure I've seen a 158+144 pairing in regular use

I travel between Leeds & Hudd fairly frequently and when walking across the footbridge from platform 16 in Leeds often see the 158+144 combo in platform 17. Occasionally they'll be operating different services but I've definitely seen them operate together a number of times.

I am right in saying Sheffield from platform 17, aren't I?

 

[TEW]

Anything is possible on that.
I have seen a 158 on the train before but cant remember what else was with it.

It was with a 153+143 IIRC. I'm not sure if 143+143+158 would fit on all the platforms. Certainly all the 6 Car stop boards are marked (4-14x+150).

 

[455driver]

It was with a 153+143 IIRC. I'm not sure if 143+143+158 would fit on all the platforms. Certainly all the 6 Car stop boards are marked (4-14x+150).

No it wouldnt, I think it was 143+158+153 so would have been fine.

As for the stop marks they are indeed marked as 14X or 150 but as we only have 143s why not use that, and where do the 153s stop?

 

[rebmcr]

The Pacers and Sprinters were specified as being able to operate with one another, and the Turbostars were specified to be compatible as well, though I've not heard of them working with anything other than Class 153 and 158.

IIRC the Turbos will work with Sprinters, and of course Sprinters with Pacers, but for some reason Turbos don't get along with Pacers.

 

[HSTEd]

IIRC the Turbos will work with Sprinters, and of course Sprinters with Pacers, but for some reason Turbos don't get along with Pacers.

I believe its Pacers are not actually to the same spec as Sprinters, but are specced to be 'compatible' - with Turbostars being the same.

Turns out A being compatible with B being compatible with C does not mean A is compatible with C.

 

[nottsnurse]

I travel from Nottingham nearly every weekday and I've never seen a Northern service operated by anything other than class 158 stock.

 

[LowLevel]

I travel from Nottingham nearly every weekday and I've never seen a Northern service operated by anything other than class 158 stock.

It's semi regularly a 150 of one variety or the other, very rarely a 155 and sometimes a 153 appears lashed to a 158 as well.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

One of the evening peak services from Leeds to Victoria via Dewsbury is regularly a 142+158... The 158 tends to be lashed on not long before departure after coming ECS from Neville Hill, meaning that the 142 is packed and the 158 is pretty quiet!

 

[Parallel]

142s+150s or 143s+150s are regularly seen on Arriva's Valley Lines network too. If I'm ever in Cardiff I usually see them working to/from Treherbert, but I think that's more coincidence and they can appear on any line.

A little while ago somebody on here reported a 142 and a 158 working from Cardiff to Fishguard Harbour!!

In FGW land the 143s can sometimes be seen attached to 153s or 150s. I think I read somewhere that when a HST failed, they sent a pacer from Paignton to London via. Bristol (where they attached a 150) hock: . Apparently the unit only made it to Swindon though, I could imagine control were going into meltdown with a 75mph unit on the 125mph lines.

 

[TEW]

No it wouldnt, I think it was 143+158+153 so would have been fine.

As for the stop marks they are indeed marked as 14X or 150 but as we only have 143s why not use that, and where do the 153s stop?

I think some of the stop boards date from the time when 142s were still around, but seems odd not to just put 143 on the newer ones.

 

[edwin_m]

I travel between Leeds & Hudd fairly frequently and when walking across the footbridge from platform 16 in Leeds often see the 158+144 combo in platform 17. Occasionally they'll be operating different services but I've definitely seen them operate together a number of times.

I am right in saying Sheffield from platform 17, aren't I?

It is platform 17. However the way this platform normally operates is that the Nottingham/Sheffield fast comes in against the buffer stops (normally a 158). A few minutes later the Sheffield slow comes in, having been overtaken by the Nottingham while reversing at Castleford, and stops behind the 158. This is normally a Pacer. They then depart in reverse order and the slow is again overtaken at Castleford.

Hence it may appear from a distance that the trains are coupled but they could actually be separate.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The Pacers and Sprinters were specified as being able to operate with one another, and the Turbostars were specified to be compatible as well, though I've not heard of them working with anything other than Class 153 and 158.

Part of the equation is what stock the TOCs have and where it operates, IIRC Pacers have never been with the same TOC as Turbostars.

I've seen a 150 with a 153 and 170, but not in service (ECS move Birmingham New Street to Tyseley TMD).

IIRC the Turbos will work with Sprinters, and of course Sprinters with Pacers, but for some reason Turbos don't get along with Pacers.

I believe its Pacers are not actually to the same spec as Sprinters, but are specced to be 'compatible' - with Turbostars being the same.

Turns out A being compatible with B being compatible with C does not mean A is compatible with C.

IIRC, someone made mention at the time of introduction that there was an issue with electrical connection block wiring, or something like that, where a buzzer constantly sounded in the cab of a Sprinter that was coupled to a 170 and it was speculated the same would happen with a Pacer. ISTR that it was said that the appropriate Sprinters were modified, but the Pacers were not.

This might be myth, I don't know for certain.

....I think I read somewhere that when a HST failed, they sent a pacer from Paignton to London via. Bristol (where they attached a 150) hock: . Apparently the unit only made it to Swindon though, I could imagine control were going into meltdown with a 75mph unit on the 125mph lines.

I think it has happened a couple of times with different units substituting on different routes, one ISTR was a 153 starting out from Penzance, being joined by a 150 at Plymouth and getting as far as Exeter before an HST stepped in for the run to London.

 

[PHILIPE]

(

142s+150s or 143s+150s are regularly seen on Arriva's Valley Lines network too. If I'm ever in Cardiff I usually see them working to/from Treherbert, but I think that's more coincidence and they can appear on any line.

A little while ago somebody on here reported a 142 and a 158 working from Cardiff to Fishguard Harbour!!

In FGW land the 143s can sometimes be seen attached to 153s or 150s. I think I read somewhere that when a HST failed, they sent a pacer from Paignton to London via. Bristol (where they attached a 150) hock: . Apparently the unit only made it to Swindon though, I could imagine control were going into meltdown with a 75mph unit on the 125mph lines.

The Valleys are normally booked either 2xPacers or 1x150 on all routes which run to the tops with the odd exceptions. Sometimes with substitutions you see these apacer+150 combo.
A Pacer has been booked to strengthen the Fishguards Boats on Summer Saturdays and there are instances of Pacer + 150/158 combo on EbbwVales on Saturdays.

 

[Strathclyder]

170+158 combos can occur up here in Scotrail territory. 170+156 combos can also sometimes appear.

 

[Tracky]

170+158 combos can occur up here in Scotrail territory. 170+156 combos can also sometimes appear.

Talking of 170 158 combos, there have been a couple of occasions now where an ATW 158 has rescued or been rescued by a LM 170...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When flicking through vids on youtube, there's occasionally been a 158 with the driving trailer of another 158 coupled to the end, would that have been whilst the other driving trailer of the second unit was in for maintenance?