Differences in headway for 158s vs 185s

[northwichcat]

Page 53 of this pdf: http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/fktpe-capacity-report.pdf shows this for North TPE between Stalybridge and Huddersfield.

The 158 outperforms the 185 on:
Diggle to Marsden (down) - by 5s
Marsden to Diggle (up) - by 5s

The 185 outperforms the 158 on:
Stalybridge to Diggle (down) - by 8s
Huddersfield to Marsden (up) - by 3s
Diggle to Stalybridge (up) - by 1s

It's a dead heat on:
Marsden to Huddersfield (down)

So not much to choose overall. A 185 is 3s quicker in the down direction and a 158 is 1s quicker in the up direction.

 

[talltim]

And the 185 uses far more fuel to do it (even allowing for the extra coach)

 

[northwichcat]

And the 185 uses far more fuel to do it (even allowing for the extra coach)

When 158s were running North TPE there were a mix of 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 car formations (when special events were on they even got up to 8 car on some occasions.) Some of the current SWT 159s are former TPE 158s that got converted to 159s.

 

[The Planner]

Not entirely sure what that table is there for to be fair unless it is to prove they can put the trains closer than they are now. The Huddersfield to Marsden headway is a bit iffy, no margin in it at all.

 

[northwichcat]

Not entirely sure what that table is there for to be fair unless it is to prove they can put the trains closer than they are now. The Huddersfield to Marsden headway is a bit iffy, no margin in it at all.

Yeah a 185 vs 170 table would make more sense given TPE have both and plan to continue using both on North TPE when the extra hourly service is introduced.

Maybe that table was done in 2006 (when TPE had both 158s and 185s) and got copied across to the new document by accident.

 

[edwin_m]

On the level and downhill sections the train performance has virtually nothing to do with it, as it's just down to rolling along and staying within the speed limit. Sorry don't have time to check the report at present but anyone thinking about this also needs to consider station dwell times. My guess is that the 185 will win hands down when the time needed for boarding and alighting at Huddersfield is taken into account.

 

[northwichcat]

My guess is that the 185 will win hands down when the time needed for boarding and alighting at Huddersfield is taken into account.

I think the more flexible class 158 formations could make a difference here - 185s are either 3 or 6 car. 158s could have been 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 car so a Middlesbrough service with a below average loading could have been 2 car, while the Newcastle service with an above average loading could have been 4 car whereas now they both finish up as 3 car, which speeds up loading on the Middlesbrough service but might slow it down on the Newcastle service.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

10 seconds is neither here nor there when you end up stopped at Ardwick or Castlefield for 2 minutes anyway.