Diesel Under The Wires When Unelectrified Branches Are Closed

[507020]

Today, it was bus replacement between Hazel Grove and Buxton, but DMUs continued to run to Hazel Grove all day, despite not leaving the wires at all. When there is no running on an unelectrified line and the service could be run with EMUs, why isn’t this done? It would in theory both provide a better service for passengers and save fuel/maintenence for the operator.

In this case, route/traction knowledge is not much of an issue with many of the same train crew working EMUs on e.g. the Crewe service and with it being Sunday (and the line to Manchester Airport also being closed) there were plenty of 323s sat spare on Allerton Depot that could have run a Hazel Grove electric service on the same diagrams allocated to DMUs today.

The same would apply to sending 331s to the bay platform at Oxenholme when Windermere is shut. Hazel Grove is perhaps easier since Oxenholme does not regularly see EMUs, but either way, while there may be an excuse for DMUs running a majority of their distance under the wires to service unelectrified branches given the lack of electrification, there is less of one for running entirely under the wires during engineering works.

 

[Bow Fell]

How are the 323’s getting from Allerton to there?

Allerton-Crewe-Manchester is one long ECS move for the sake of Hazel Grove shuttle

Do you know the 323’s are “spare” for a fact? On a Sunday many units spare are saved for exam miles.

Buxton don’t sign 323’s either.

Similarly at Oxenholme, Barrow don’t sign 331’s.

 

[skyhigh]

How are the 323’s getting from Allerton to there?

Allerton-Crewe-Manchester is one long ECS move for the sake of Hazel Grove shuttle

Exactly. Strike yesterday, overtime ban on Friday and no RDW either. Those units aren't going to magic themselves into position for this morning's service...

 

[507020]

How are the 323’s getting from Allerton to there?

Allerton-Crewe-Manchester is one long ECS move for the sake of Hazel Grove shuttle

Do you know the 323’s are “spare” for a fact? On a Sunday many units spare are saved for exam miles.

Buxton don’t sign 323’s either.

Similarly at Oxenholme, Barrow don’t sign 331’s.

Exactly. Strike yesterday, overtime ban on Friday and no RDW either. Those units aren't going to magic themselves into position for this morning's service...

Is Allerton - Lime Street - Chat Moss not usable? There are still ECS movements from required from Newton Heath via various routes unless you have units stabled closer at Piccadilly, Ardwick, Stockport, in which case it wouldn’t matter whether Diesels or electrics have been allocated.

A strike the previous day is of course a factor that has seen some unusual allocations all over the country as part of the best efforts to run a service, this can be excused. It was just today that had me thinking about it.

I am obviously not suggesting magic of any kind. Without oversight of Northern (or any other operator’s) maintenance, I obviously can not guarantee that there was magically an electric fleet available today specifically to operate Hazel Grove shuttles.

I am however asking a wider question about contingency arrangements during engineering works making better use of electrification infrastructure where it exists, which with sufficient planning if implemented would not be an unreasonable suggestion, rather than just defaulting to truncated DMU diagrams which then run entirely under the wires all day.

Without going into the details of exactly what every depot signs, Buxton do not sign 323s as per my example, but do sign 331s which could equally be used and Barrow sign 195s. The conversion course for 331s is not too long should it ever be desired for them to have booked work on 331s, which could not be to Barrow but could be to Carnforth during engineering works for example.

I also have another question. If a depot is cut off by engineering works, as Buxton was today, do they have any booked work, as this would have necessitated a very long taxi journey, either to an open station such as Chinley, Hazel Grove or Macclesfield for a train, or all the way to Stockport, Manchester or Crewe.

During certain diversions, all services have to be worked by a sometimes limited pool of depots/links who sign them and it is possible, although I understand the difficulties making this harder, let alone resourcing the normal timetable. Perhaps a longer term aspiration.

 

[NSE]

Sometimes it comes down to work later in the diagram. For example, the diesel might work to Hazel Grove under wires, before going back to Manchester and forming a Chester service which needs a diesel. Platform lengths can come in too, with the only EMUs available possibly 4 carriages and the diesel diagram stopping at 2 car platforms (unlikely under wires in the Hazel Grove example I appreciate) or the stock may not be cleared.

Not saying these are all the case, or that services inter work with Chester (just example to explain my point!) but that could show some of the reasons.

 

[skyhigh]

Buxton do not sign 323s as per my example, but do sign 331s which could equally be used

But are you sure that 331s could be used? The ones which are at Allerton are under exam, they're not just sat spare.

The conversion course for 331s is not too long should it ever be desired for them to have booked work on 331s, which could not be to Barrow but could be to Carnforth during engineering works for example.

Conversion courses come with a cost. The traction knowledge doesn't last indefinitely either. With that in mind, given the subsidy the industry receives, is it reasonable to train crews on new units when there are other units that could be used on the odd occasion?

Again, there is no RDW at the moment so to run a conversion course you are taking drivers off booked work - that means either reduced spare cover or cancelling passenger services. Is that worth it when you could run a diesel for a day instead?

If a depot is cut off by engineering works, as Buxton was today, do they have any booked work

Short answer is that it depends. On the West Sunday is overtime so potentially the majority of diagrams could be cancelled and staff not required to work.

 

[Bovverboy]

I recall, a few years ago now, there were works taking place at Castlefield on several Sundays in a row. A TPE service (it may have been Manchester Airport to Barrow/Windermere, still TPE-operated at the time) was split, with the Airport to Oxford Road section being operated standalone. It was operated by a 350, even though the full service would have been a 185. So there is a precedent for an EMU standing in for a DMU. Presumably worked by Manchester-based crews, so there shouldn't have been a unit knowledge problem. At Oxford Road the service arrived and departed platform 4, the timetable being such that there was only a few minutes dwell, and no conflict with other services.
Running 331s on Airport - Oxenholme would be scuppered by the fact that, in normal operation, Airport - Windermere interworks with Airport - Barrow. You would need to rewrite the entire timetable, or have units stood about unnecessarily.