Diesel shunters transferred to Australia

[The Crab]

In Kenn Pearce's book "Shedside on Merseyside" he refers to "33 withdrawn (at Speke Junction shed") diesel shunters awaiting transfer to Australia". I remember seeing many shunters lined up in 1968 but I can't remember the details. I think they were all in the 12033- series. I had simply assumed that they were scrap - there was still steam to interest me. Does anyone have any background?

 

[Ashley Hill]

According to the Diesel Almanac website Class 11 12033 was scrapped in 1970. Here’s a link to that webpage.

DIESEL LOCOMOTIVE 12033

Many redundant shunters were exported abroad, perhaps the sale of these fell through.

 

[Gloster]

In Kenn Pearce's book "Shedside on Merseyside" he refers to "33 withdrawn (at Speke Junction shed") diesel shunters awaiting transfer to Australia". I remember seeing many shunters lined up in 1968 but I can't remember the details. I think they were all in the 12033- series. I had simply assumed that they were scrap - there was still steam to interest me. Does anyone have any background?

A quick check through both the RCTS and NRM/Wild Swan books on the type reveals precisely nothing. I very much doubt that anyone in Australia, even a coal mines group, would ship twenty-year old locos half-way across the world, as by that time Australia had an established diesel locomotive building industry (*). Just one of these stories that come up: maybe something was misheard or a railwayman was winding someone up.

* - Although in recent years the Danish MZ were shipped out.

According to the Diesel Almanac website Class 11 12033 was scrapped in 1970. Here’s a link to that webpage.

DIESEL LOCOMOTIVE 12033

The Class 11 ran from 12033 to 12138.

 

[OVS Flatbottom]

There were some locos similar to the Class 11 in Australia, but they were all built new by English Electric in the early fifties -see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways_F_class_(diesel):

The F Class are a class of diesel locomotive shunters built by Dick Kerr Works for the Victorian Railways between 1951 and 1953. They are similar to the British Rail Class 11 and NS Class 600 shunting locomotives also built by English Electric during this period, but modified for use on the VR's 5 ft 3 in (1,600 mm) broad gauge (also known as Irish Gauge).

Perhaps someone became confused at some point? (After all, a number of redundant BR shunters of other classes did end up getting exported, although I don't think any went to Australia.)

 

[The Crab]

There were some locos similar to the Class 11 in Australia, but they were all built new by English Electric in the early fifties -see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways_F_class_(diesel):



Perhaps someone became confused at some point? (After all, a number of redundant BR shunters of other classes did end up getting exported, although I don't think any went to Australia.)

Thanks for the replies. I thought it sounded unlikely but I think Ken Pearce moved to Australia & I wondered if there was a connexion.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2025 ==

Remarkably, I have found a record for a visit to Speke Jct November 1967. There were 17 shunters in the 12xxx series, most numbered below 12033 (the jackshaft variant). I can't be sure but I think they were all withdrawn. I chatted to a driver on the bus back to Liverpool and he told me that Edge Hill and Speke Jct would close early May - unwelcome news.

 

[Magdalia]

In Kenn Pearce's book "Shedside on Merseyside" he refers to "33 withdrawn (at Speke Junction shed") diesel shunters awaiting transfer to Australia". I remember seeing many shunters lined up in 1968 but I can't remember the details. I think they were all in the 12033- series. I had simply assumed that they were scrap - there was still steam to interest me. Does anyone have any background?

According to BR Database, Speke Junction had various ex LMS shunters, in the 12003-32 batch, that were withdrawn there in 1967.

All of them are recorded as being cut up, most of them at Slag Reduction at Ickles.

The Spotting Logs blog lists them at Speke Junction on 22/10/67 and 04/01/68.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Ex-BR shunters would not have been much use on the Victorian Railways - they are 5'3" gauge.

 

[Merle Haggard]

There does seem to be some confusion. 12003 - 32 were jackshaft drive of prewar design. the class 11 shunters were still be overhauled in 1967 - 8 - our local 12049 went off to Derby still with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the bonnet side and came back in shiny BR Blue. However, a number of 204 hp shunters of several types were transferred late in life to thenLiverpool division and these were withdrawn in about 1967.

There has been some difficulty with the accuracy of reports of diesel (and steam) disposals to scrapyards around this period; someone who claimed to be an expert on these matters was presented with a list of gaps in data and filled in every one, which now seems to have been based on imagination rather than information; see 'What Real Happened to Steam' and RCTS 'Diesel Dilemmas'.

 

[Strathclyder]

* - Although in recent years the Danish MZ were shipped out.

Almost all (16 of the 20 built) of the MZ IIIs were bought by Lachlan Valley Rail Freight (later renamed Independent Rail, bought out by Qube Logistics in 2012) in 2006. Two were damaged badly enough during transit that they were written off upon arrival in Australia. A few have fallen by the wayside since then, most notably 1438 which sustained serious accident damage at Port Botany in December 2011 that left it with a severely bent cab/frame at one end.

A video of one undergoing load trials on the infamous Cowan Bank in October 2006.

 

[OVS Flatbottom]

Ex-BR shunters would not have been much use on the Victorian Railways - they are 5'3" gauge.

In fairness, some class 14s did end up on 5'6" gauge in Spain (https://features.rcts.org.uk/diesel-dilemmas/class-14-exports/), and there have been a handful of British locos (most famously a couple of Jinties) regauged to 5'3" for service in Ireland. However, if Pearce was actually living in Australia as the OP mentioned, I'd have expected him to have been aware of the provenance of the VR F class, so this may not be the explanation.

 

[Gloster]

In fairness, some class 14s did end up on 5'6" gauge in Spain (https://features.rcts.org.uk/diesel-dilemmas/class-14-exports/), and there have been a handful of British locos (most famously a couple of Jinties) regauged to 5'3" for service in Ireland. However, if Pearce was actually living in Australia as the OP mentioned, I'd have expected him to have been aware of the provenance of the VR F class, so this may not be the explanation.

Also half a dozen former L&NWR Webb 2-4-2T that went to the Dublin, Wicklow & Wexford in 1902; five came back to Britain during the Great War. There were also a number of early and contractors locos that had been used in the UK. (But this is well off at a tangent.)

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Through all my years interested in BR shunters, and membership of the IRS for many years (now past), nothing from BR went down under AFAIK?. Loco's classes that went abroad and spring to mind are classes 03/04's (mainly to Italy) and a couple of 14's (to Spain - just missed D9515 at BSC Corby!). There were five if memory serves correct, class 08's* that went out to Liberia, LAMCO Mining or something?
(* This is off top of my head at present, but had a feeling the LAMCO bound locos were class 10's - without checking that is - but D3047 keeps coming to mind, as one of, and that was an 08).

 

[Gloster]

Through all my years interested in BR shunters, and membership of the IRS for many years (now past), nothing from BR went down under AFAIK?. Loco's classes that went abroad and spring to mind are classes 03/04's (mainly to Italy) and a couple of 14's (to Spain - just missed D9515 at BSC Corby!). There were five if memory serves correct, class 08's* that went out to Liberia, LAMCO Mining or something?
(* This is off top of my head at present, but had a feeling the LAMCO bound locos were class 10's - without checking that is - but D3047 keeps coming to mind, as one of, and that was an 08).

They were D3047/3092/3094/3098/3100. It has also been reported that D3020 also went to LAMCO, but this is highly unlikely. (Liberian-American-Swedish Mining Company.)

Supposedly Class 10 D3639 and D3649 went to Guinea in 1970, but doubts have been expressed about this.

Main source: Diesel & Electric Locomotives for Scrap (Butlin, OPC, 2015).

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Supposedly Class 10 D3639 and D3649 went to Guinea in 1970, but doubts have been expressed about this.

Reading The Allocation History of BR shunters, as produced by Heritage shunters Trust (based on the former Harris type volumes), which I know a shed load of work went in to, to prove/disprove various question marks over a number of locos, it would seem the last 'confirmed' (?) sighting of these two was in Surrey docks in London on 7-3-70, with the comments they were shipped out to Guinea. My thinking here is that they may well have been spotted in the docks on that day, possibly with hearsay as to their intended destination, but did anyone actually observe them being loaded on to a ship etc. Probably not? The assumption seems to be that they went on a voyage, with current status unknown.
Anyway, West Africa is a few miles from the OP's location of question, so will end this particular theme here!

 

[norbitonflyer]

According to my well-thumbed copy of D&E Loco Register, the only "350s" exported were the Class 08s mentioned above, and some pre-war LMS examples which went abroad during WW2 and never came back (LMS 7069-73/75/77/78 and 7100-7109. The survivors (7074/6/9-99, 7110-7119) became 12000-12032 (7080-7119/ 12003-12032 were the jackshaft type)

 

[Big Jumby 74]

(7080-7119/ 12003-12032 were the jackshaft type)

Quite so, 12033 being the first class 11. That's got me thinking - which of the model manufacturers might be brave enough to attempt a 12xxx (ex LM)* jackshaft shunter, or is that a technical challenge too far...

Probably a very limited market for same though tbh?

*BOLD: edited for clarity etc