Diesel new builds/recreations

[alexl92]

Was D0260 actually outshopped in all-over white including the bogies and underframes? Why would they bother painting those parts white when they're guaranteed to get mucky so fast?
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they is a plan to build a replica of kestrel

http://railtube.info/2016/09/project-kestrel-share-scheme/

As someone not familiar with economics & business...

To pay for this work we are offering 500,000 shares at £10 each. There will be no minimum or maximum holding and will be available and can be purchased by regular payments to spread the cost over a number of months. Shares do not confer ownership of the loco.

If shares don't have anything to do with the ownership of the loco and one share entitles the purchaser to one year's membership (albeit 10 shares = life membership), what actually are you purchasing when you buy a share, and why not offer either a donation or a membership subscription rather than shares? Is there a reason for this? I always thought the idea of shares was that you buy into the ownership of whatever it is?

 

[birchesgreen]

Personally i'm not too hung up on authentic diesels being used in these recreations, especially if its types that were extinct before i ever saw/heard a real one, i wouldn't know what the real thing sounded like. Obviously you'd want something that didn't sound silly or totally out of place and i'm sure there are available engines for that.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

An accurate recreation of some extinct diesel classes is probably a lot more challenging than a steamer.
Building a new and reasonably authentic steamer is hugely costly but very doable as Tornado has shown.

Recreating a diesel locomotive requires the availability of a working authentic power unit, or a reasonably close substitute.
Building a replica power unit is effectively impossible, so if one (and preferably a spare) is not available then a recreation is not viable.

One could of course build a replica frame and body, and fit within this a modern diesel power unit, but that in my view would so different from the original as to not be worth it.

also recreating an old diesel power unit may have issues with emissions etc rather than using an extant block ....

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I suspect Lion would be the easier of the two given its similarity to a Class 47 - dimensions, power unit etc.

Paint a 47 white and stick some go-faster bodystripes on the side, job done....

 

[broadgage]

they is a plan to build a replica of kestrel

http://railtube.info/2016/09/project-kestrel-share-scheme/

It sounds an impressive plan, but with the stated intention to use a modern power unit, it wont really be an accurate recreation.
Also it would in effect be a new design, albeit with a familiar outline, would network rail allow a new one-off design on the national network ?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If shares don't have anything to do with the ownership of the loco and one share entitles the purchaser to one year's membership (albeit 10 shares = life membership), what actually are you purchasing when you buy a share, and why not offer either a donation or a membership subscription rather than shares? Is there a reason for this? I always thought the idea of shares was that you buy into the ownership of whatever it is?

The shares would provide direct ownership of part of the business itself, not any of the assets ( eg the replica locomotive ) which would remain the direct property of the business.

There is a difference between the two situations and the easiest way of explaining it is to say that you would own part of the value of the assets rather than the assets themselves.

 

[alexl92]

The shares would provide direct ownership of part of the business itself, not any of the assets ( eg the replica locomotive ) which would remain the direct property of the business.

There is a difference between the two situations and the easiest way of explaining it is to say that you would own part of the value of the assets rather than the assets themselves.

Thanks!

 

[Cowley]

I just noticed when reading about the LMS 10000 diesel replica in The Railway Magazine that the 'correct style' bogies have been sourced for the project.
Clearly this is a massive step forward for the group. Does anyone know where they came from?

 

[Ash Bridge]

I just noticed when reading about the LMS 10000 diesel replica in The Railway Magazine that the 'correct style' bogies have been sourced for the project.
Clearly this is a massive step forward for the group. Does anyone know where they came from?

I stand to be corrected but I think from a class 77 (spare set?)

 

[Cowley]

I didn't realise they were a similar bogie design. I just looked it up on the LNER encyclopaedia site and yes, the EM2 bogie was based on the bogies under the LMS diesels 10000/10001.
Thanks Ash Bridge, today's new fact stored

 

[Ash Bridge]

I didn't realise they were a similar bogie design. I just looked it up on the LNER encyclopaedia site and yes, the EM2 bogie was based on the bogies under the LMS diesels 10000/10001.
Thanks Ash Bridge, today's new fact stored

Also it's excellent don't you think that they managed to source an EE16SVT engine identical to those fitted to 10000/10001, I'm intrigued to know if these loco's produced a sound similar to the later class 40 or 50, I don't suppose many (if any) on the forum are old enough to remember.

 

[Cowley]

Also it's excellent don't you think that they managed to source an EE16SVT engine identical to those fitted to 10000/10001, I'm intrigued to know if these loco's produced a sound similar to the later class 40 or 50, I don't suppose many (if any) on the forum are old enough to remember.

Definitely and I reckon they would have that English Electric family sound, perhaps like a 40 with less turbo whistle? Did they have turbos? I can't work out if they did or if that was how they boosted the power on locos using the same power unit later on.
It's really gathering pace this one and I could see people digging into their pockets to fund it as well.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Definitely and I reckon they would have that English Electric family sound, perhaps like a 40 with less turbo whistle? Did they have turbos? I can't work out if they did or if that was how they boosted the power on locos using the same power unit later on.
It's really gathering pace this one and I could see people digging into their pockets to fund it as well.

I believe they were turbo-charged, the version fitted in the 40s I think were both turbo-charged and inter-cooled, and that's how they achieved the power boost, didn't they experimentally uprate one of the 40s to 2500bhp at one time?

 

[Cowley]

Ah I didn't know that.

 

[Spartacus]

It sounds an impressive plan, but with the stated intention to use a modern power unit, it wont really be an accurate recreation.
Also it would in effect be a new design, albeit with a familiar outline, would network rail allow a new one-off design on the national network ?

It seems like a sheep in wolf's clothing if it's to have a modern engine, might as well just convert the cabs of a 47!

I think there's two, both curious, better possibilities for the engine:

A) The Sulzer 16LVA24 was not a one-off for Kestrel, a number were produced for power station generators: I read a few years ago of one being found in Northern France....

B) Two years after Kestrel disappeared behind the iron curtain Kolomna Locomotive Works produced a 100mph locomotive with a 4000hp diesel engine: it'd be an interesting project to reverse-reverse engineer the engine!

 

[Cowley]

I believe they were turbo-charged, the version fitted in the 40s I think were both turbo-charged and inter-cooled, and that's how they achieved the power boost, didn't they experimentally uprate one of the 40s to 2500bhp at one time?

I just had a very interesting chat to Mr Cowley senior (The Father) who grew up in 1950s/60s North London. He remembers the LMS twins working out of Euston, often as a pair and sometimes singly. "And very smart they looked too" he said .
He said they made a deep rumbling noise not unlike a class 50.
So there we go, the nearest thing I've got to a time machine.

He also remembers class 28s on freight trains in North London which he described as "very noisy and a bit tinny and crackly sounding ", and class 30s when they were brand new which he thought were very smart.
He's always been a big fan of old EMUs and the like too.

He said it was a really interesting time to be into railways with the mixture of new technology and old. I'll say!
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It seems like a sheep in wolf's clothing if it's to have a modern engine, might as well just convert the cabs of a 47!

I think there's two, both curious, better possibilities for the engine:

A) The Sulzer 16LVA24 was not a one-off for Kestrel, a number were produced for power station generators: I read a few years ago of one being found in Northern France....

B) Two years after Kestrel disappeared behind the iron curtain Kolomna Locomotive Works produced a 100mph locomotive with a 4000hp diesel engine: it'd be an interesting project to reverse-reverse engineer the engine!

That really would be interesting and in this day and age I wouldn't rule out someone actually doing it!

 

[Ash Bridge]

I just had a very interesting chat to Mr Cowley senior (The Father) who grew up in 1950s/60s North London. He remembers the LMS twins working out of Euston, often as a pair and sometimes singly. "And very smart they looked too" he said .
He said they made a deep rumbling noise not unlike a class 50.
So there we go, the nearest thing I've got to a time machine.

He also remembers class 28s on freight trains in North London which he described as "very noisy and a bit tinny and crackly sounding ", and class 30s when they were brand new which he thought were very smart.
He's always been a big fan of old EMUs and the like too.

He said it was a really interesting time to be into railways with the mixture of new technology and old. I'll say!

That's very interesting to learn, thanks for all that at least hopefully in the not too distant future we will get to hear what a 28 sounds like again, perhaps not much chance for a 30 though I'll have to just mention a very interesting find I made tonight, a 7" EP from Argo Transacord (Decca Label) entitled 'D For Diesels, guess what, one of the tracks is a recording of 10000 & 10001 climbing Shap working the Royal Scot not had chance to play it yet but will keep you informed, I notice there is currently one for sale on eBay.

 

[Cowley]

Wow, what a find!