Diesel fuel

[amarshe]

Having had a discussion about cars and regular/premium fuels with a friend recently, he was adamant that his car ran better with more mpg on premium diesel.

Which got me thinking, do diesel trains use the same grade as road vehicles? Given the fuel consumption, do any operators use additives?

Hard to find out with google so do forgive me if it's a daft question! I know farm vehicles run on red diesel which as far as I can see is just regular grade with a dye added....

 

[neilb62]

As far as I know the railway uses red diesel. We certainly did in the 47's and 50's on the Western...

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Yes, it's red diesel and so is available to TOCs at lower prices because fuel duty is not payable. These days, it has small amount (c.5%) of biofuel added to it as part of climate change policy. This has slightly lower calorific value meaning that the 'mpg' is less (by 2-3%) than in the past. In other words, slightly more fuel by volume is burnt.

 

[Nym]

So you burn around 2 to 3% more fuel, meaning carrying more fuel in the first place, so overall, you're only using around 2.25% less diesel, if you don't take account of the additional fuel you're burning by having to carry more fuel... Thus, increasing CO2 emissions at source and reducing the land availability for food production in an increasingly overcrowded country. Nice move...

 

[najaB]

...and reducing the land availability for food production in an increasingly overcrowded country. Nice move...

That depends on the source of the bio-diesel.

 

[randyrippley]

I think you'll find much of the biodiesel used in the mix comes from esterified recovered chip fat. Should actually help the engine burn more cleanly with less residue buildup internally.

 

[furnessvale]

Yes, it's red diesel and so is available to TOCs at lower prices because fuel duty is not payable. These days, it has small amount (c.5%) of biofuel added to it as part of climate change policy. This has slightly lower calorific value meaning that the 'mpg' is less (by 2-3%) than in the past. In other words, slightly more fuel by volume is burnt.

Pedantic. Fuel duty IS payable but at a lower rate than roads because railways pay their own track costs.

Only commercial aircraft have the luxury of zero fuel duty, presumably because they are sooo much more environmentally friendly than rail. (Those of a delicate disposition please turn on your sarcasm meters)

 

[GB]

I believe international law prevents fuel duty being imposed in aviation, at least on international flights.

One of the reason air passenger duty was brought in, to claw back some of the cash lost to the treasury.

 

[edwin_m]

Isn't it just that airlines will tank up in whichever country isn't taxed, thereby increasing emissions as planes will be carrying more weight than necessary?

 

[najaB]

Isn't it just that airlines will tank up in whichever country isn't taxed, thereby increasing emissions as planes will be carrying more weight than necessary?

I think that's why there's no tax on fuel for international flights as it would need to be the same level in all countries to avoid tankering (where it is possible). Also, no country would want to be first to introduce a tax for fear of damaging their air transport links.

 

[furnessvale]

I think that's why there's no tax on fuel for international flights as it would need to be the same level in all countries to avoid tankering (where it is possible). Also, no country would want to be first to introduce a tax for fear of damaging their air transport links.

Indeed, I know why it happens hence my sarcasm comment.

I just wish airlines would stop bleating on about how hard they are done by with the APD.

 

[Elecman]

I remember during one of the fuel strike crisis' we were given Government permission to fill the railway Operationally essential and on call diesel vehicles with Red Diesel from OTM depots but had to record the exact amount filled and carry a letter from said department in the vehicles afterwards in case of "inspection and tank dipping " which would have shown Red Diesel had been used in the road vehicle,mauthorising its presence.

 

[alexl92]

Having had a discussion about cars and regular/premium fuels with a friend recently, he was adamant that his car ran better with more mpg on premium diesel.

Which got me thinking, do diesel trains use the same grade as road vehicles? Given the fuel consumption, do any operators use additives?

Hard to find out with google so do forgive me if it's a daft question! I know farm vehicles run on red diesel which as far as I can see is just regular grade with a dye added....

I've heard people swear that you pay around 9% more per litre and gain about 10-11% better performance with premium fuels. Personally, other than the matter of it keeping your fuel lines etc in better condition, I've seen no improvement in economy or power. I tend to use it once every 2-3 fills to try and keep my 200,000 miler alive!

 

[AnonymousUser1]

That depends on the source of the bio-diesel.

given that you can use 'recycled' frying oil to run some diesel engines as is or as feedstock for bio diesel the land use argument isn;t really that good a reason why not ...