Did Scotrail do a good job?

[backontrack]

[WARNING: TOPIC IS OF A CONTROVERSIAL NATURE. OPENING POST CONTAINS RAMBLING.]

Franchise main thread can be found here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=103634
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Following on from the main Scotrail Franchise thread, I was wondering what your consensus on First Scotrail as an operator was. I always thought they were more highly regarded than others (*cough* Greater Anglia *cough*) but then I might be wrong.

Of course this is the same everywhere. There's always going to be someone to dislike a general service anywhere, and it's more than likely to be because they want it to be run how they want it. The rail service has to do this as much as it can, but it also has to make compromises. Some TOCs make too many compromises, such as punctuality, cleanliness, and suchlike. In fact, there are many heavily compromised TOCs that we love to hate (or just hate). For fuller discussion of 'bad' operators and suchlike, seek elsewhere on the forum.

There are many bad TOCs, but I want to know the general consensus of this forum on this particular one which, as of Friday, has been Scotland's main service for 10 years. That's a long time for a TOC (although Chiltern have been going for 16 years, and will continue to run until at least 2021) and gives its passengers a long time to familiarise with it. First Scotrail recently lost the franchise to Abellio, as we all know. But did it do a good job of running Scotland's railways, and what can Abellio do to improve on it as well as improving those factors usually compromised on?

I personally think it's an OK operator, there's been worse. But enough about me and my ramblings. What do you guys think?

 

[DelayRepay]

I've no real experience of First Scotrail, but I will say this:

Around here, many people complained about First Capital Connect. Many people were delighted when it was announced that First had lost that franchise. However after experiencing a month of Govia, they have changed their tune.

Performance is all relative.

 

[Marklund]

but after seeing their Twitter account it seems they're not that popular after all.

Twitter is not a litmus test for anything.

 

[Greenback]

Twitter is not a litmus test for anything.

Absolutely right! It's like saying I won't use Thomsons for my holiday because I found a couple of bad reviews on line. People tend not to write anything if they've had a good experience!

 

[backontrack]

Twitter is not a litmus test for anything.

Edited.

 

[Greenback]

In that case, yes.

I've also edited your opening post, by the way, to remove any suggestion of backseat moderating.

 

[backontrack]

Absolutely right! It's like saying I won't use Thomsons for my holiday because I found a couple of bad reviews on line. People tend not to write anything if they've had a good experience!

In that case, can you tell me about your holiday? (Your opinion on Scotrail?)

 

[Greenback]

My experiences with Scotrail have been of comfortable, clean trains, friendly staff and generally reliable services. They also have some good offers. Maybe Abellio will be better, maybe not. I'm sceptical about franchising as a whole, if I'm honest, most of the time I don't see any real differences when the operator changes. Any that occur are usually only cosmetic.

 

[backontrack]

In that case, yes.

I've also edited your opening post, by the way, to remove any suggestion of backseat moderating.

Thanks, much appreciated.

 

[Greenback]

The question in the thread title!

 

[backontrack]

My experiences with Scotrail have been of comfortable, clean trains, friendly staff and generally reliable services. They also have some good offers. Maybe Abellio will be better, maybe not. I'm sceptical about franchising as a whole, if I'm honest, most of the time I don't see any real differences when the operator changes. Any that occur are usually only cosmetic.

I agree with this. Scotrail have been good when I've used them. Franchising is strange sometimes because services can be changed a lot sometimes, but usually, they hardly get changed at all. It's never that different, because, underneath the different names and liveries, it's still just a company that runs train services.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The question in the thread title!

Oops, should have known that, sorry for the mix-up. Entirely my fault, should have waited.

 

[Greenback]

Don't worry about it, we got there in the end! In fact, I'm tempted to say we're 'backontrack'!

I groan inside when new franchises are announced as providing a better deal for passengers. Apart from a couple of insignificant tweaks little actually changes one way or the other.

I get annoyed when investment is cited as a positive, as investment always needs to be made in new rolling stock, refurbishments, station improvements etc whoever is actually running the services. The alternative is the slow circle of decline that BR had to endure for much of its existence.

 

[Marklund]

I use the Sleeper to go North and visit the relatives and the occasional local/inter-Scottish-City train when I'm up there.
The Sleeper staff, I find to be very good, the coaches, well, they've had their day.
The Inter-Scottish-City trains seem to be cleaned often, but they are getting busier even off peak, so it's easy to see why they want more coaches.

I'd say that SQUIRE has more to do with anything, than who the actual operator is.

 

[Altnabreac]

To me the problem with judging a franchise operator is that there are really three questions:

Q1 Was the franchise well specified? (e.g. enough carriages funded, sensible stopping patterns specified, fare rises kept to reasonable levels)

Q2 How well are the routes they operate on maintained by Network Rail? (e.g. cancellations, signalling problems etc)

Q3 Did the franchisee operate the franchise well within the parameters set? (e.g. staff training, industrial relations, maintenance/cleaning of vehicles, customer service policy, details of fares policy, promotions / offers etc)

Most of our complaints about franchises tend to be with the Q1/2 which aren't really anything to do with the franchisee but more to do with DfT / TS / Network Rail.

My impression of First Scotrail is that the Franchise was well specified by Transport Scotland and that they operated it reasonably well too but how much of that was down to First Group?

 

[Greenback]

My impression of First Scotrail is that the Franchise was well specified by Transport Scotland and that they operated it reasonably well too but how much of that was down to First Group?

I agree. That's my point really about there being not much change. It doesn't really matter to the passenger who operates, as the franchise specifications are set by government. It's only a matter of how the company delivers, and given that there are a limited number of companies, they have more similarities than differences.

 

[thenorthern]

I have used First Scotrail a couple of times and when I used it the services seemed fine and the free WIFI was good. I was not keen of the 2008 re-brand as I felt that the new livery looked a bit too nationalist and wasn't really required.

Its difficult to say if a company has done a good job in any case as the railways are so heavily regulated by the Government companies have very little control of what happens to do a good job or not including in the case of Northern Rail.

 

[MCR247]

I felt that the new livery looked a bit too nationalist and wasn't really required.

It was required: by the Scottish Government

 

[najaB]

What do you guys think?

They are my 'local' TOC, so I use their services a lot. On the whole, I say that they have run the operation pretty well. As they say, service is what kicks in when things go wrong - I've had a few occasions where things didn't go to plan and, on the whole, they've handled them well. On one occasion there wasn't crew to operate a service to Edinburgh - they very quickly arranged taxis to take passengers to Stirling, and even held the train at Stirling for a few minutes.

As others have posted, however, they have had a bit of an advantage over other TOCs when it comes to provision of rolling stock. It's a lot easier to overcome operational problems when your fleet isn't stretched to near breaking point.

 

[edwin_m]

I think there are at least three things that influence the quality of service a TOC provides a lot more than which (if any) of the big groups operates it:

(1) The financial settlement the franchise manages to get at the start: for Scotrail fairly generous I expect, so there hasn't been the need for crazy cost-cutting that has happened on some other franchises.

(2) The amount of supervision by the public sector and the effectiveness of the penalties they can apply. I get the impression Transport Scotland has worked with Scotrail to improve the service but not been afraid to wield the big stick when the operator seems to be slipping (and benefits also from SQUIRE monitoring which covers a wide range of performance measures).

(3) The quality of the local management - to some extent it's a lottery but (1) above probably makes a difference.

Based on my limited experience First Scotrail has been a well-run franchise but as I say probably because it has been adequately funded and closely monitored, and for those reasons I'd expect it to continue in the same way with the new operators. Merseyrail, LOROL, DLR and Metrolink are similarly closely monitored and also do not carry revenue risk, and these too give the impression most of the time of being run reasonably well.

 

[overthewater]

Did First do a good job with Scotrail? Lets be clear here, its all thanks to the Scottish Government, and no one else.

 

[thenorthern]

It was required: by the Scottish Government

I noticed it was after the SNP government took over at Holyrood.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Following on from the main Scotrail Franchise thread, I was wondering what your consensus on First Scotrail as an operator was. I always thought they were more highly regarded than others (*cough* Greater Anglia *cough*) but then I might be wrong.

I'm no huge lover of AGA, but you know compared to what come directly before them, they are a vast improvement even if I wouldn't say they're much above average.

It's not as good as FGE/AR but at least it's not as bad as None or National Distress.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I think on the whole FSR Have done no harm and a certain amount of good. My faults with them on them are well documented, no high backed seats installed when 156s were refurbed, 170s on Aberdeen and Inverness Intercity Workings etc but a lot of the station investment was over and above what was needed or specked and if you forget the barriers which I personally disagree with in certain locations they aint done much wrong. I thought there decision to bring onboard catering in house, build a Scottish Customer Contact Centre and hold customer forums were highlights. There handling of disruption in my experience has been pritty good too.

 

[amcluesent]

I have no great regard for them. I was on one of their trains and a 'big man' gave me a batterin'!

But seriously, for a few years I travelled PBO-HLC quite frequently and my spirits always sank alighting from East Coast at GLC or EDB to complete the journey on Scotrail

The lack of any FC lounge at GLC was always a great annoyance after travelling on the sleeper, in contrast to the provision at EUS

Similarly, the FC provision on the EDB-GLQ shuttle was frequently full.

 

[306024]

Speaking as an outsider by some distance, First Sctorail have never let me down on my ventures up north and beyond. But then to be fair neither did National Express before them. I always get the impression Scotland's railways are comparatively well run, which is a credit to the staff involved who will now mostly TUPE across to yet another employer.

I'm no huge lover of AGA, but you know compared to what come directly before them, they are a vast improvement even if I wouldn't say they're much above average.

It's not as good as FGE/AR but at least it's not as bad as None or National Distress.

NX's problem was that they saw no value in engaging with their customers, sorry passengers. Abellio put much more effort into this. Scotrail staff can look forward to their 'Inspire' courses

 

[Strathclyder]

Personally, I think that they have done well on the whole. As much as I look forward to Abellio taking over, I'll miss First when they go.