Did BR close the wrong station and line in Nottingham?

[grumpyoldman01]

Access to the Birmingham line was easy, and existed before Beeching / Marples. The Line from Nottingham Victoria continued beyond Derby Friargate to Egginton Jn, and then via a North Staffordshire line to Burton On Trent. It would have been less suitable for fast services than the Midland route, but would have avoided the time wasted by having to reverse in Derby Midland.

Reversal at Derby wasn't necessary until the 1969 re-signalling - the original route from Trent into Derby continued onwards from Spondon roughly along the alignment of the A52 Brian Clough Way and into the north end of the station via Chaddesden Sidings; this route was severed at that time

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2021 ==

I have a vague recollection of reading that there was only one Marylebone-Nottingham return working that was DMU worked. This used a set between the peaks, going out just after the morning one and coming back after midday.

There certainly was - I travelled on it in either 1965 or 1966

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2021 ==

The 1914 Railway Clearing House map shows a Midland - GN connection at Sneinton, just east of London Road Low Level, via an exchange siding (reversal required). I think that might have survived into the BR era. London Road Low Level remained in use as a goods station into the 1970s.

There was a northern connection between the GNR Pinxton branch and the MR in the Erewash Valley (Brinsley Junction to Great Northern Junction); this was used by GNR freights from King's Cross and Colwick to reach the GNR's Manchester (Deansgate) goods depot, and they usually ran via the Hope Valley but sometimes from Pye Bridge to Ambergate then via Peak Forest. According to 'Rails to Ripley' by Howard Sprenger, this service continued to run throughout the LNER period, and didn't finish until 1952

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Apr 2021 ==

IMO the first decade of BR was a missed opportunity to drive culture change through the disparate organisations inherited from the Big Four, and create a truly integrated national railway network. I can remember the ER and LMR advertising their rival expresses from Nottingham to London as though they were still competing private companies. Even when rationalisation eventually did occur, middle management too often regarded it as an exercise in screwing over a competitor (e.g. Midland vs GC/GN), rather than an opportunity to integrate the best parts of duplicated networks and share best practice.

I agree with your sentiments about the first decade of BR being a missed opportunity, but this was really due to government

When the railways were nationalised, the British Transport Commission effectively became a holding company, and the four private sector railway companies were replaced by six publicly owned ones; although they all operated under the British Railways name, each region had so much autonomy they were effectively six separate companies.

Originally, the Railway Executive was placed between the BTC and the regions, but it was abolished after the Conservatives won the 1951 general election; moreover, competition between regions was mandated by government, hence the Eastern and London Midland advertising rival expresses as if they were competing companies. Ten years later, the situation was effectively reversed, with the BTC being abolished and the BRB (and other separate boards) being established.


I mentioned in an earlier post recalling seeing an article about using the GC Main Line for parcels traffic, and I have now found it; it is mentioned in a summary of a talk given to the East Midlands section of the Institute of Transport by Mr EW Arkle, the LMR's Director of Traffic Services, and it was primarily about the electrification of the WCML. However, he also discussed the future of the GC Main Line, and stated that the LMR had long terms plan for the line and that "large capital works might be necessary" to link it to former MR lines, but the region had enough to do without tackling them at the time because all of its efforts were focussed on the WCML electrification

In searching for the above (which is in the February 1960 issue of 'Trains Illustrated'), I've discovered one written by the late Brian Perren in the December issue of the same magazine entitled 'The role of the Great Central - present and future' and I'll try and summarise it in a separate post as it is very detailed. You can see why there was a desire to get rid of passenger trains from the GC - in 1960, there were 58 unfitted freights a day leaving Annesley for Woodford Halse, plus other freights such as the fish trains and ones for Guinness between York and Park Royal! At the time of the article's writing, the connection at Stratford on Avon between the SMJR and GWR had just been constructed, and the GC from the north east/Yorkshire/East Midlands to Woodford Halse, then the SMJR and GWR to Cheltenham, was being developed as the prime freight route to South Wales, missing the West Midlands.

The summary of Arkle's talk states that three return DMU workings had been established (presumably in January 1960) between Marylebone and Nottingham Vic, going north at 08.40, 12.40 (12.25 SO), and 16.40, with returns at 08.40, 12.25, and 17.15.

 

[WesternLancer]

Reversal at Derby wasn't necessary until the 1969 re-signalling - the original route from Trent into Derby continued onwards from Spondon roughly along the alignment of the A52 Brian Clough Way and into the north end of the station via Chaddesden Sidings; this route was severed at that time

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2021 ==


There certainly was - I travelled on it in either 1965 or 1966

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Apr 2021 ==



There was a northern connection between the GNR Pinxton branch and the MR in the Erewash Valley (Brinsley Junction to Great Northern Junction); this was used by GNR freights from King's Cross and Colwick to reach the GNR's Manchester (Deansgate) goods depot, and they usually ran via the Hope Valley but sometimes from Pye Bridge to Ambergate then via Peak Forest. According to 'Rails to Ripley' by Howard Sprenger, this service continued to run throughout the LNER period, and didn't finish until 1952

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Apr 2021 ==




I agree with your sentiments about the first decade of BR being a missed opportunity, but this was really due to government

When the railways were nationalised, the British Transport Commission effectively became a holding company, and the four private sector railway companies were replaced by six publicly owned ones; although they all operated under the British Railways name, each region had so much autonomy they were effectively six separate companies.

Originally, the Railway Executive was placed between the BTC and the regions, but it was abolished after the Conservatives won the 1951 general election; moreover, competition between regions was mandated by government, hence the Eastern and London Midland advertising rival expresses as if they were competing companies. Ten years later, the situation was effectively reversed, with the BTC being abolished and the BRB (and other separate boards) being established.


I mentioned in an earlier post recalling seeing an article about using the GC Main Line for parcels traffic, and I have now found it; it is mentioned in a summary of a talk given to the East Midlands section of the Institute of Transport by Mr EW Arkle, the LMR's Director of Traffic Services, and it was primarily about the electrification of the WCML. However, he also discussed the future of the GC Main Line, and stated that the LMR had long terms plan for the line and that "large capital works might be necessary" to link it to former MR lines, but the region had enough to do without tackling them at the time because all of its efforts were focussed on the WCML electrification

In searching for the above (which is in the February 1960 issue of 'Trains Illustrated'), I've discovered one written by the late Brian Perren in the December issue of the same magazine entitled 'The role of the Great Central - present and future' and I'll try and summarise it in a separate post as it is very detailed. You can see why there was a desire to get rid of passenger trains from the GC - in 1960, there were 58 unfitted freights a day leaving Annesley for Woodford Halse, plus other freights such as the fish trains and ones for Guinness between York and Park Royal! At the time of the article's writing, the connection at Stratford on Avon between the SMJR and GWR had just been constructed, and the GC from the north east/Yorkshire/East Midlands to Woodford Halse, then the SMJR and GWR to Cheltenham, was being developed as the prime freight route to South Wales, missing the West Midlands.

The summary of Arkle's talk states that three return DMU workings had been established (presumably in January 1960) between Marylebone and Nottingham Vic, going north at 08.40, 12.40 (12.25 SO), and 16.40, with returns at 08.40, 12.25, and 17.15.

v interesting post

 

[S&CLER]

It may be of interest to note that brief interior and exterior scenes of Nottingham Victoria appeared in the 1945 film They Knew Mr Knight, which has been shown twice recently on Talking Pictures. The exterior certainly looked more attractive than the Midland station. I don't know Nottingham well enough to identify the other locations, and the film isn't covered in the Reelstreets website, which identifies many locations of old British films.