DfT and Network Rail to look at Sheffield area electrification

[northwichcat]

The Department for Transport and Network Rail have established a joint taskforce examining the possibility of electrifying routes from Sheffield to locations including Manchester, Leeds via Moorthorpe and Doncaster.

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/business/electric-trains-plan-for-sheffield-routes-1-6686881

I wonder if this relates to DfT realising they need to electrify more if they want Pacers to be withdrawn without ordering new DMUs.

 

[snowball]

Sounds like a rehash of the December announcement, which also included such lines as ECML to Middlesbrough, Warrington-Chester, Crewe-Chester, Selby-Hull.

 

[northwichcat]

Sounds like a rehash of the December announcement

I didn't realise Sheffield-Leeds was included on that.

 

[snowball]

I didn't realise Sheffield-Leeds was included on that.

Well, it's just the few miles to Moorthorpe, as the rest is already wired as part of Doncaster-Leeds. But that bit was one of the eight routes in the study announced in December.

 

[PhilipW]

I agree. I think this is just a local reporter rehashing (and exaggerating) the old story of Network Rail looking into various schemes. There has been no new statement in the last day or so from anyone. The story was barely worth printing.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I agree. I think this is just a local reporter rehashing (and exaggerating) the old story of Network Rail looking into various schemes. There has been no new statement in the last day or so from anyone. The story was barely worth printing.

Sheffield-Manchester (ie Dore-Hazel Grove) would be new.
Not been mentioned before.
It just needs Trafford Park-Allerton adding and Bob's your uncle for TP South.

 

[snowball]

Sheffield to Manchester was one of the 8 routes in the December announcement.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/road-and-rail-projects-to-boost-local-and-regional-transport--2

 

[ExRes]

When we were doing Project Rio we were told that the gaps without a phone signal couldn't be sorted because the required masts were banned due to the gap being in the National Park area and that the scenery couldn't be ruined by nasty old masts, even if they were disguised, in true Baldrick form, as trees, but someone is planning on putting overheads up all the way through the Park area !!!!!!!!!!, one rule for one and all that methinks

 

[telstarbox]

There are already wires through the Lake District and other National Parks and even without them, you can still see the track and the brightly coloured trains from above the Hope Valley! It'll get done eventually.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There are already wires through the Lake District and other National Parks and even without them, you can still see the track and the brightly coloured trains from above the Hope Valley! It'll get done eventually.

The WCML wires don't actually cross the Lake District National Park boundary (though they come within a few hundred yards near Shap).
The boundary doesn't actually cross the old A6, and the railway is further to the east except for one short stretch.
However, if Windermere is wired it will penetrate the National Park.

The Woodhead wires did cross the Peak District boundary east of Hadfield up to the tunnel entrance through Longdendale.

 

[IanXC]

When we were doing Project Rio we were told that the gaps without a phone signal couldn't be sorted because the required masts were banned due to the gap being in the National Park area and that the scenery couldn't be ruined by nasty old masts, even if they were disguised, in true Baldrick form, as trees, but someone is planning on putting overheads up all the way through the Park area !!!!!!!!!!, one rule for one and all that methinks

I'm pretty certain electrification works, while within the NR boundary, generally fall within permitted development rights - whatever the local authority think!

 

[telstarbox]

Because they're a 'statutory undertaker' or something similar.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Perhaps somebody might invent camouflaged catenary?

 

[The Ham]

Perhaps somebody might invent camouflaged catenary?

It already is, it just it only works when it is raining (more than light rain) or foggy.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The Woodhead wires did cross the Peak District boundary east of Hadfield up to the tunnel entrance through Longdendale.

Though in that case, weren't the wires there before the National Park was?!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Though in that case, weren't the wires there before the National Park was?!

Looks like the Woodhead electrification project was started in 1935, with much of the OHL equipment in place on the western side by the time work stopped for WW2.
The national park was declared in 1951, before the new Woodhead tunnel was opened and electrically worked in 1954.
It was certainly a different era in terms of local government planning policy and opposition campaigns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester–Sheffield–Wath_electric_railway

PS I don't know the current state, but the LMR left the steelwork on the route west of Woodhead, and it still blights the line in east Manchester, especially around Guide Bridge.
The ER dismantled the steelwork on its side of Woodhead, at least through Sheffield.

 

[ExRes]

Because they're a 'statutory undertaker' or something similar.

Does that mean the whole project is dead and buried ?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

...
PS I don't know the current state, but the LMR left the steelwork on the route west of Woodhead, and it still blights the line in east Manchester, especially around Guide Bridge.
The ER dismantled the steelwork on its side of Woodhead, at least through Sheffield.

I'd argue that area has bigger aesthetic problems than a few oversized OHL stanchions, to be fair...

 

[snowball]

Does that mean the whole project is dead and buried ?

It's a curious coincidence that most statutory undertakers are people who bury pipes and cables in the ground.

 

[jimm]

I'm pretty certain electrification works, while within the NR boundary, generally fall within permitted development rights - whatever the local authority think!

Actually, it's usually because the Acts of Parliament authorising the construction of railways in the first place give Network Rail the power, as the legal successor to the companies which got the consents in the 19th century, to do pretty much whatever they like within their boundaries.

Network Rail will attach copies of the relevant Act to any prior consent applications made to councils, which effectively say, here's what we plan to do but we are going to be nice and ask for your comments, not that you can really stop us anyway...

 

[snowball]

It's presumably also because those who drafted subsequent laws about planning permission could have limited these historic powers but chose not to.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Sheffield to Manchester was one of the 8 routes in the December announcement.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/road-and-rail-projects-to-boost-local-and-regional-transport--2

Rail this week (p10) reports that the Task Force mentioned in the announcement, set up to review the priorities for the next round of electrification in the north, has not even met yet.
Problems finding suitable people and drafting its remit, apparently.
Very frustrating for those wanting more wires more quickly.

 

[snowball]

Wasn't it supposed to report within a year, i.e. December?

With the summer holidays coming it might not meet until the autumn!

 

[The Ham]

Wasn't it supposed to report within a year, i.e. December?

With the summer holidays coming it might not meet until the autumn!

Well all they need to do is start a thread on here which asks something like:

Given the review of the priorities for the next round of electrification in the north where would you look at and why?

Then sit back and wait for a week or two for the arguments to die down a bit and then use that as a starting point for the discussions. Meet a few times to work out what font you're going to use and expand on the results of the thread, including getting approximate costs (based on £x per mile plus £y per junction) and the sorts of services which could then become run by EMU's. Write the report, meet a few more times to iron out any issues in writing the report and any updates from the thread, and then publish.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

PS I don't know the current state, but the LMR left the steelwork on the route west of Woodhead, and it still blights the line in east Manchester, especially around Guide Bridge.
The ER dismantled the steelwork on its side of Woodhead, at least through Sheffield.

Woodhead electrification masts were "carefully" removed for further use; at the time of their removal, the plan was to use them to electrify Crewe - Kidsgrove on the cheap

 

[snowball]

There are still some gantries between Guide Bridge and Stalybridge. It will be interesting to see whether they get re-used in situ.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There are still some gantries between Guide Bridge and Stalybridge. It will be interesting to see whether they get re-used in situ.

At Edge Hill, where there is a de-wired stretch before Wavertree station, they seem to be putting up new wires on new gantries, completely ignoring the old gantries nearby.

 

[34D]

It's presumably also because those who drafted subsequent laws about planning permission could have limited these historic powers but chose not to.

So how wide ranging are these powers? Could they include extending a line/reinstating an old line?

 

[BurtonM]

The Woodhead wires did cross the Peak District boundary east of Hadfield up to the tunnel entrance through Longdendale.

There's a load of electricity pylons being built/replaced there now, OHLE is nothing by comparison.