Devon to Yorkshire during ww2

[ashleya]

Hello,

I am trying to find information on how long it realistically would have taken someone to travel from South Molton in Devon to Ripon station (now disused) via train in the 1940s about 6 months to 1 year post ww2.

Any insight or information around this would be extremely helpful. I am wanting the information as I am currently writing a novel that has some parts of the book set during this time period and one of my characters makes this journey.


Thanks in advance,
Ashley

 

[mike57]

A starting point may be Timetable World, https://timetableworld.com/

Specifically: https://timetableworld.com/ttw-viewer.php?token=cc8ba528-9f91-4d4e-9de6-853a39d86be0, which is the June 1946 Bradshaws.

Thinking about this a bit more, I think there would be two probable routes, one via London, arriving Paddington, Underground to Kings Cross, and then onward to Ripon, and the other cross country route. Either way there would be several changes. Remember this is prior to nationalisation in 1948, so journey into Paddington would have been GWR, and Kings Cross - Ripon would have been LNER. You would also need a ticket at Paddington for the Underground, Metropolitian Line on tubes maps, about 20 mins travel time, but allow 60 mins for Paddington - Kings Cross. (probably not that different in 1946 from today)

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Unfortunately 'Timetable World' does not a have a 1940 Bradshaw, but looking at the 1944 edition when the service was decidely thin and slow the least worst cross-country option would have been:-

South Molton 0836 Taunton 0956
Taunton 1113 Bristol (TM) 1223
Bristol (TM) 1255 Leeds (City) 1843
Leeds (City) 2132 Ripon 2320

In August 1939 you could have left Taunton at 1120 on the 'Devonian' through service arriving in Leeds City 1724 with a connection to Ripon leaving at 1738 and arriving at 1859. The 'Devonian' was chopped back to Bristol - Bradford and unamed pretty soon after the start of hostilities I believe.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Another route would have been from Taunton/Bristol to Manchester via the North & West route (Severn Tunnel/Hereford/Shrewsbury/Crewe).
This was effectively the main route north, and included sleepers, with joint GWR/LMS operation.
Manchester-Ripon would then be via Huddersfield/Leeds, again with joint LMS/LNER operation.
Interstation transfers might have been necessary in Manchester (London Rd-Exchange, or via Stockport-Stalybridge), and in Leeds (City-Central).
Ripon was on the Leeds Northern route via Harrogate.

 

[Taunton]

Mr Taunton Senior did this run regularly in the first half of WW2, from Thirsk, or York, to Taunton. Always on the overnight, which i believe was through from Newcastle to Plymouth. Had as many coaches as could be mustered, and always double-headed on LNER, LMS and GWR.

There's an account by me of an incident that once arose on the journey here :

What happened to fare dodgers in the 1920s?

Would I be taken to court? Were there such a thing as penalty fares? How did the railways enforce fare payments before BR?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Gloster]

Why was the journey being made? If it was on a Forces Travel Warrant (I think that was the correct term at the time) which would be used when going on or off leave or for transfers the route would have been the shortest. If it was a personal journey then the choice would be the traveller’s, but tickets were generally based on mileage and so an indirect route would cost more.

 

[WesternLancer]

Unfortunately 'Timetable World' does not a have a 1940 Bradshaw, but looking at the 1944 edition when the service was decidely thin and slow the least worst cross-country option would have been:-

South Molton 0836 Taunton 0956
Taunton 1113 Bristol (TM) 1223
Bristol (TM) 1255 Leeds (City) 1843
Leeds (City) 2132 Ripon 2320

In August 1939 you could have left Taunton at 1120 on the 'Devonian' through service arriving in Leeds City 1724 with a connection to Ripon leaving at 1738 and arriving at 1859. The 'Devonian' was chopped back to Bristol - Bradford and unamed pretty soon after the start of hostilities I believe.

Interesting - with prolonged waits by some modern standards! Mind you, OP says 6 months to a year following end of WW2 - so presume from December 1944 to summer 1945 timetables.

 

[30907]

Unfortunately 'Timetable World' does not a have a 1940 Bradshaw, but looking at the 1944 edition when the service was decidely thin and slow the least worst cross-country option would have been:-

South Molton 0836 Taunton 0956
Taunton 1113 Bristol (TM) 1223
Bristol (TM) 1255 Leeds (City) 1843
Leeds (City) 2132 Ripon 2320

In August 1939 you could have left Taunton at 1120 on the 'Devonian' through service arriving in Leeds City 1724 with a connection to Ripon leaving at 1738 and arriving at 1859. The 'Devonian' was chopped back to Bristol - Bradford and unamed pretty soon after the start of hostilities I believe.

The 1946 timetable has an 1124 from Taunton once again, due Leeds 6.31, which is the old Devonian, and a 6.45 Leeds to Ripon due 7.54.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Timetables were steadily 'recovering' after the 2WW.

The February 1947 Bradshaw offers:

South Moulton 9.08a.m. to Taunton 10.27a.m.
Taunton 11.12a.m. to Bristol Temple Meads 12.25p.m.
Bristol Temple Meads 12.45p.m. to Leeds City 5.36p.m.
Leeds City 6.10p.m. to Ripon 7.14p.m.

(Yes, I know that this is slightly later than the originally specified time window.)

Regardless of budget it wouldn't have been quicker to go via London. Few trains out of King's Cross at useful times.

 

[Ken H]

My dad was sent to Sapa flow just after VE day by the RAF. The trains were all late and i think it tool one and a half days. So I think some of the timetables quoted above were not realistic. He implied other journies during the blackout were long, overcrowded and tedious, with long waits on stations drinking Naffi tea.
I suspect there was still bomb damaged infrastructure which took years to repair.

 

[Taunton]

The 1946 timetable has an 1124 from Taunton once again, due Leeds 6.31, which is the old Devonian, and a 6.45 Leeds to Ripon due 7.54.

The 1946 winter timetable, due to be introduced in October of that year, was impacted by a national printers' strike, which included Bradshaw's publisher and printer, Henry Blacklock, who also did much internal printing for the railways as well. As a result the new times from that date had to be delayed, as printed documents were all they had then, and the previous summer arrangements and times carried on. Railway author George Behrend makes reference to this in his classic book about the GWR "Gone With Regret".

 

[Gloster]

The July 1945 ABC Guide (very London-centric) offers gives several possibilities via London, but the best seem to be:

South Molton depart 08.36 / 16.33. No Sunday trains.
Paddington arrive, with a change at Taunton, at 13.35 / 19.25

Kings Cross depart 16.00 / 22.25 (Not Saturdays), 22.40 (Saturdays), 23.15 (Not Saturdays or Sundays) 23.30 (Fridays Only)
Ripon arrive 22.50 / 05.20 (Monday to Saturday,) 08.15 (Sunday), 08.37 (Monday to Saturday, off 23.15 and 23.30). All appear to require a change at Holbeck.

It should be added that because of memories of trains often having been heavily delayed during the war, people would allow plenty of time for appointments and changes of train. Even if the heavy military traffic had reduced the memories were fresh.

 

[30907]

The 1946 winter timetable, due to be introduced in October of that year, was impacted by a national printers' strike, which included Bradshaw's publisher and printer, Henry Blacklock, who also did much internal printing for the railways as well. As a result the new times from that date had to be delayed, as printed documents were all they had then, and the previous summer arrangements and times carried on. Railway author George Behrend makes reference to this in his classic book about the GWR "Gone With Regret".

Fortunately the one online is June 1946

Timetables were steadily 'recovering' after the 2WW.

The February 1947 Bradshaw offers: (...)

Bristol Temple Meads 12.45p.m. to Leeds City 5.36p.m.

That's a massive speed up, near enough to its pre-war schedule.

From memory, a blanket 60mph restriction was imposed in 1939 and wasn't lifted until some time in the 40s.I suspect that was after summer 1946

 

[ashleya]

Thank you so so much to everyone who has replied. I really appreciate all the help that you have all provided me with and it will make my characters train journey a lot more believable and realistic. You have also given me some other factors to think about such as overcrowding, late trains and post war bomb damage. Thank you all so much for your insights!

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so so much to everyone who has replied. I really appreciate all the help that you have all provided me with and it will make my characters train journey a lot more believable and realistic. You have also given me some other factors to think about such as overcrowding, late trains and post war bomb damage. Thank you all so much for your insights!

No doubt people here can advise you on the type / style of carriages your character may have travelled in should you need any info like that! Probably even the colour of the upholstery now I think about it...

 

[Taunton]

Another past post from me about refreshment provision en route. Although the war was finished, very little had restarted in the years that followed

Moving or emotional incidents witnessed on railway property.

I expect many members have witnessed moving or emotional incidents during their travels on railway property. I recall one whilst travelling to Westminster in 1990. Sitting opposite me was a young couple. I guessed from the style and quality of their clothing that they were from the former...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Ken H]

Thank you so so much to everyone who has replied. I really appreciate all the help that you have all provided me with and it will make my characters train journey a lot more believable and realistic. You have also given me some other factors to think about such as overcrowding, late trains and post war bomb damage. Thank you all so much for your insights!

Bear in mind that while the war ended in Europe 8th May 1945 the war against Japan continued till 15 august. So while air raids ended the country was still on a war footing. Then the A bomb changed everything.

 

[Irascible]

Thank you so so much to everyone who has replied. I really appreciate all the help that you have all provided me with and it will make my characters train journey a lot more believable and realistic. You have also given me some other factors to think about such as overcrowding, late trains and post war bomb damage. Thank you all so much for your insights!

Don't forget about the trains themselves probably being rather more worn out than usual - my grandfather was in Wolverton works all war & didn't see a railway vehicle for quite some time, probably a similar story in many other works. Not sure about stations - you'd think they might be needing some TLC but that does seem like the sort of job a certain bracket of the population ineligible for service might have wanted to do, no doubt someone will be able to fill that side of things out.