Deutsche Bahn 'nears Arriva deal'

[merlodlliw]

It may be that DB won;t want the franchise, they may not think it lucrative enough!

The new All Wales Franchise will be decided under the ScallyWags, not some bionic headed DFT employee as previous. Wag know they were sold a pup
We wont see any no growth franchise again, as will it be worth it, DB will bid to keep others out. Wag know money as got to be spent on new stock

 

[gordonthemoron]

It may be that DB won;t want the franchise, they may not think it lucrative enough!

That's possible, I get the impression that the routes which DB have relinquished in germany are the ones they didn't want

 

[Techniquest]

New stock to replace the ageing Pacers, yes. And in a few years, the 150s as well (well over 25 years old now). The rest can stay as is for now, surely?

Not that we'll see any new stock for a long time.

 

[gordonthemoron]

The wales trains should have a Red Dragon on them

 

[mumrar]

And in a few years, the 150s as well (well over 25 years old now).

The class 150 production run started in 1985=25 years old, the two 'scud' prototypes were built in 1984=26 years old, so they are in fact nowhere near 'well over 25 years old now'

 

[gordonthemoron]

The class 150 production run started in 1985=25 years old, the two 'scud' prototypes were built in 1984=26 years old, so they are in fact nowhere near 'well over 25 years old now'

They were introduced whilst I worked for BR, so between 1982 & 1988. However, IIRC it would have been around the time I moved to Nottingham so 1985/6

 

[37401]

aslong as they keep the WAG I don't mind who runs it hope some 158s get re-furbed the smell is all too much for me on them

 

[TDK]

Since DB will own ATW and WSMR, does this mean that through trains from Aberystwth to Marylebone may now be a possibilty?

I doubt it but it opens up 2 extra paths from Shrewsbury to London for timings, I would imagine that there will now be good connections between the Aber Services and the WSMR services as DB own both companies, this takeover by DB I think will help the people of Wales as the former ATW and WSMR could work in harmony opposed to against each other, only time will tell, as for the South of Wales maybe now the imaginary North South divide that is apparent will be quashed and equalamonts of percentage money from the WAG distributed more evenly!
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The wales trains should have a Red Dragon on them

I think 2 of the WSMR 67's have red Welsh dragons on them! I know 13 certainly has!

 

[Dai.]

The wales trains should have a Red Dragon on them

Depends what the red dragon looks like but yeah it would be cool to have one on them.

 

[Techniquest]

The class 150 production run started in 1985=25 years old, the two 'scud' prototypes were built in 1984=26 years old, so they are in fact nowhere near 'well over 25 years old now'

Oops, memory misleading me there. Almost right for me though

Still reckon within 10 years there'll be want/need to replace them.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Dow Jones Thursday, 22/04/10, 15:29

The deal must be approved by European regulators. Following talks with E.U. antitrust authorities, Grube said Deutsche Bahn will have to sell Arriva's German rail activities. He said bus operations in Germany also may have to be divested.

"Deutsche Bahn is determined to buy Arriva. But at the same time we are not going to be drawn into a ruinous acquisition battle," Gruber said.

 

[gordonthemoron]

A friend has pointed out today how crap the Arriva owned Alex trains connection times are in Munich. Alex runs trains west from Munich to Lindau and north from Munich to Hof. Each of these services runs on a two hour frequency. However, it is not possible to rely on connecting from the Lindau train to the Hof one (or vice versa) because the connection time is mostly 3 minutes.

 

[fgwrich]

A friend has pointed out today how crap the Arriva owned Alex trains connection times are in Munich. Alex runs trains west from Munich to Lindau and north from Munich to Hof. Each of these services runs on a two hour frequency. However, it is not possible to rely on connecting from the Lindau train to the Hof one (or vice versa) because the connection time is mostly 3 minutes.

Sounds exactly like NXEA

try getting from great yarmouth to cromer without having an hours wait at norwich

this deal will be interesting though...and hopefully things will start getting alot better on XC!

Afterall, with DB potentially at the helm, things really can only get better

 

[anthony263]

if anything maybe DB could perhaps order some more class 172's for the cardiff valley lines, at least to replace the pacers and maybe perhaps free up some class 150's.


I know that new trains will be required for the Ebbw Vale - Newport service when it starts in the next few years.

failing that maybe some of the class 172's could be sent to chiltern and some chiltern class 165's coming to south wales perhaps? i know they wouldn't be able to work service north of Radyr but maybe they could work the cardiff - swansea swanline service?

 

[The Planner]

I doubt it but it opens up 2 extra paths from Shrewsbury to London for timings, I would imagine that there will now be good connections between the Aber Services and the WSMR services as DB own both companies

How does it open two paths ?? the paths for the 158s ?? they were always provisional and wouldnt probably work with a Cambrian hourly.

 

[The exile]

A friend has pointed out today how crap the Arriva owned Alex trains connection times are in Munich. Alex runs trains west from Munich to Lindau and north from Munich to Hof. Each of these services runs on a two hour frequency. However, it is not possible to rely on connecting from the Lindau train to the Hof one (or vice versa) because the connection time is mostly 3 minutes.

Hardly Alex's fault that the connections are crap - all they do is run trains at the frequencies (and times) that they are told to do by the Bavarian authorities that pay for the services. Political micro-control is alive and well and living in Germany - with results just as absurd as anything the UK can come up with (or more so!)

 

[Greenback]

The new All Wales Franchise will be decided under the ScallyWags, not some bionic headed DFT employee as previous. Wag know they were sold a pup
We wont see any no growth franchise again, as will it be worth it, DB will bid to keep others out. Wag know money as got to be spent on new stock

The question is, how interested are DB in Arriva's UK rail operations? And do their plans for UK rail revolve around inter city type services so as to link in with their proposed Channel Tunnel trains? I can't answer these questions, but it may be that DB might prefer to bid for a franchise that is a bit more glamorous!

 

[steve099]

I work for Chiltern Railways and up until now have not seen much involvement by DB. We had a few visits by DB staff initially, mainly to see how we operate and discuss best practice but the day to day running remains in the hands of Adrian Shooter and his team. I belive Mr Shooter is the MD of DB Regio UK so he may have some influence over the future of Arriva, not a bad thing me thinks!!

This is the impression I have had with Deutsche Bahn's involvement in Chiltern Railways and in turn Chiltern's in Wrexham & Shropshire. However, I'd imagine that there will be some interest in getting an early renewal on the All Wales franchise if there is investment?

The question is, how interested are DB in Arriva's UK rail operations? And do their plans for UK rail revolve around inter city type services so as to link in with their proposed Channel Tunnel trains? I can't answer these questions, but it may be that DB might prefer to bid for a franchise that is a bit more glamorous!

I spotted via Google News one news article claimed Deutsche Bahn may have to dump the British rail franchises due to EU competition laws?? Anyone know about this?

 

[Electrostar]

Maybe now is the oppertune for the WAG to initiate similar branding to ScotRail?

If they don't, or even if they do, perhaps now might also be the time that DB decide to go for branding their operations here (including Chiltern). It represents a major leap in their operations here. Be a big order for red paint if the go for both Chiltern and All Wales though!

The press is reporting DB plans to keep the Arriva brand outside of Germany. If the deal goes through then perhaps it's more likely we'll see DB's existing Chiltern franchise rebranded as Arriva. Perhaps Cross Country could get the corporate treatment too. I doubt DB Schenker will change though as Arriva is a passenger company. As a previous poster suggested, it's all speculative at this stage.
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Quote from DB chief executive stating Arriva brand to remain.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100422/tuk-deutsche-bahn-buys-arriva-for-1-6-bl-a7ad41d.html

 

[Greenback]

There may be a lot of very disappointed peopel aroudn if the name stays...!!!

 

[merlodlliw]

There may be a lot of very disappointed peopel aroudn if the name stays...!!!

what ever you are on Greenback, seems like "SIR GAR" liquor, send us a few bottles, If the name stays, send me a crate.
with the W/S takeover DB ensured the brand remained, but that was a dam good brand.

 

[TDK]

There may be a lot of very disappointed peopel aroudn if the name stays...!!!

Why would that be? It will save money if Arriva remains as the brand name as all the hardware and all the stations and bus stops,all the uniform etc will also remain, if DB save money there is more money in the pot for improvements
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The press is reporting DB plans to keep the Arriva brand outside of Germany. If the deal goes through then perhaps it's more likely we'll see DB's existing Chiltern franchise rebranded as Arriva. Perhaps Cross Country could get the corporate treatment too. I doubt DB Schenker will change though as Arriva is a passenger company. As a previous poster suggested, it's all speculative at this stage.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Quote from DB chief executive stating Arriva brand to remain.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100422/tuk-deutsche-bahn-buys-arriva-for-1-6-bl-a7ad41d.html

I doubt if Chiltern will be rebranded, some of these quotes are illogical
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The question is, how interested are DB in Arriva's UK rail operations? And do their plans for UK rail revolve around inter city type services so as to link in with their proposed Channel Tunnel trains? I can't answer these questions, but it may be that DB might prefer to bid for a franchise that is a bit more glamorous!

DB have bought the Arriva group not only ATW and Arriva Group is a very glamorous company
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How does it open two paths ?? the paths for the 158s ?? they were always provisional and wouldnt probably work with a Cambrian hourly.

NR agreed 2 paths for ATW to run to London from Aber via Shrewsbury, so, there are 2 paths available surely? Are you saying NR agreed the paths and they wouldn't work?

 

[HSTfan!!!]

if anything maybe DB could perhaps order some more class 172's for the cardiff valley lines, at least to replace the pacers and maybe perhaps free up some class 150's.


I know that new trains will be required for the Ebbw Vale - Newport service when it starts in the next few years.

failing that maybe some of the class 172's could be sent to chiltern and some chiltern class 165's coming to south wales perhaps? i know they wouldn't be able to work service north of Radyr but maybe they could work the cardiff - swansea swanline service?

I fail to see how anything turbostar based would be good on the valleys, surely a whole new design would be needed? Could a turbo physically work on the valleys?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why would that be? It will save money if Arriva remains as the brand name as all the hardware and all the stations and bus stops,all the uniform etc will also remain, if DB save money there is more money in the pot for improvements

but our uniform is crap! well certainly at ATW anyhow

 

[The Planner]

No, the paths were agreed on the basis they would be allowed to run the service and on the timetable at that time, there were no firm rights for them. Things have changed with the evolvement of the Evergreen 3 timetable and how a potential hourly Cambrian service could/would work. Its unlikely the original paths are there in exactly the same form.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I fail to see how anything turbostar based would be good on the valleys, surely a whole new design would be needed? Could a turbo physically work on the valleys?

Why not, the 172s are different beasts to 170s and are alleged to accelerate like the proverbial off a shovel.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

in comparision to 14x/15x surely they are rather damn heavy

 

[tbtc]

The new All Wales Franchise will be decided under the ScallyWags, not some bionic headed DFT employee as previous. Wag know they were sold a pup
We wont see any no growth franchise again, as will it be worth it, DB will bid to keep others out. Wag know money as got to be spent on new stock

DAB will no doubt put in a competitive bid, as they will on all future franchises (along with all of the usual suspects).

However:

1. We all know that past performance is no guarantee of winning the next tender (see First Great Eastern and Anglia losing out to National Express as an example)

2. Half way through the Wales & Borders franchise, there's little time left to invest in things and get a positive return

3. There's no guarantee that Welsh politicians will have the money to fund investments in the next franchise (they'll talk a good game, but the funding may not be there for substantial improvements)

 

[mumrar]

Turbostars are roughly 20% heavier than 150s. But then, 150s are 27% heavier than Class 101 power+trailer sets, so I'm sure it doesn't matter too much.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

I suppose you could argue that the turbo's should be a lot more efficient than a 150?

 

[Bellwater]

There's going to be a gap in Merlodlliw and Ivo's lives now.

Any suggestions to what they could fill it with??

 

[merlodlliw]

There's going to be a gap in Merlodlliw and Ivo's lives now.

Any suggestions to what they could fill it with??

No gap train-spotter, everything as been achieved for this year.Very many thanks for your heartfelt concern which is most gratefully appreciated.