Detonators

[driver9000]

Well, you're supposed to take your lamp with you (anyone still got a Bardic?) so it's not too bad.

I have a bardic, much better than a Halo lamp.

I've only ever got a bit freaked out at night once. I was running ECS on my own in the small hours of the morning and was stopped at a signal, I got down to use the SPT. It was a perfectly still and silent night with only the the engines making a sound, then I heard not too far away from me very quiet voices behind the trees - there was an unlit path on the other side of them and they were folk going home from the pub. Still got my heart going a bit I was glad to get back in the cab!
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Text book answer

(Just to add, you don't need to use emergency protection in areas of permissive working)

Can you tell, my rules wasn't that long ago?

I wasn't going to confuse matters by going into the realms of emergency protection too

 

[pendolino]

Can you tell, my rules wasn't that long ago?

I wasn't going to confuse matters by going into the realms of emergency protection too

Although I actually meant assistance protection, but spelt it 'emergency'. It's an alternative spelling you may be unfamiliar with.

Threads like this are really good for jogging the grey matter into remembering such rarely-used rules, thanks everyone.

We no longer have Bardics, we have TOClites instead. Very useful at the disco.

 

[strange6]

Although I actually meant assistance protection, but spelt it 'emergency'. It's an alternative spelling you may be unfamiliar with.

Threads like this are really good for jogging the grey matter into remembering such rarely-used rules, thanks everyone.

We no longer have Bardics, we have TOClites instead. Very useful at the disco.

That's why you can bet that drivers like yourself and driver9000 are tip-top, cream of the crop, train drivers. By posting on a forum such as this, it not only shows me the love and the passion you have for your job, but it also reinforces all of the technical stuff to such an extent that it becomes second nature to you. I find that if you're really passionate about something, it only needs to be explained once and it's in the head forever. I think Max and Mojo (and the mods) can be really proud of this forum for just this one reason alone.

 

[StoneRoad]

hmm...

I recall watching a short clip on the interwebby a while back of someone testing dets with a loco....back and forwards, several times....lots of nice bangs. bet the neighbours really loved that!


Random memory - many, many years ago, when I went on a "last train" up and back down a closing branch line, as we left on the way back....a whole lot of dets were exploded by the dmu. Not only was it loud, the smell and smoke was interesting!

 

[WL113]

This often happened when a line closed or a signalbox was being taken out. The last ecs on the Oldham Loop Line exploded detonators.

Detonators are no longer kept in the majority of signalboxes. Only those boxes with detonator placers now have them.

 

[Trog]

I have known a supervisor lay a couple of hundred out of date dets on a siding. In a yard attached to a town centre mainline station. Then casually ask a driver to run his loco down the siding so he can check it is OK.

Sounded like machine gun fire.

Would probably draw the wrong sort of attention if you did that these days.

 

[ChrisCooper]

In the past detonators were often used for last runs of trains too, but all the ones I've been to I've never known it done, although all have been in recent years.

 

[fairysdad]

... if you have to lay three detonators, why do you have to carry them in batches of ten?

 

[JoeGJ1984]

I've seen a youtube video of the last train on the Epping-Ongar branch of the London Underground, and it looks like detonators were used then.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

... if you have to lay three detonators, why do you have to carry them in batches of ten?

Because you may have to lay more in emergency protection. Always good to have spares as well.

 

[JoeGJ1984]

... if you have to lay three detonators, why do you have to carry them in batches of ten?

Because you may have to lay more in emergency protection. Always good to have spares as well.

Seems more logical to carry then in, say, 12s (a multiple of 3).

 

[pendolino]

... if you have to lay three detonators, why do you have to carry them in batches of ten?

Good question. I don't know, to be honest. You might have to protect more than one line when carrying our emergency protection, so you might need more than 3, but you're right, 10 isn't a multiple of 3.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Seems more logical to carry then in, say, 12s (a multiple of 3).

True - limitations of storage and supply is a possibility.

 

[Hydro]

A lookout carries 6 for emergency protection.

I remember a favourite question in exams was what to do at junctions if they fall within the 1 1/4 mile distance. Which route do you protect first? The official answer seemed to be "Whichever it is most likely a train will approach from". I always said I'd kick a load of ballast between the switch and stock rails to foul the points, then protect the line that the route is set for. With the points fouled, the route cannot be set for the other direction and therefore protected.

 

[strange6]

A lookout carries 6 for emergency protection.

I remember a favourite question in exams was what to do at junctions if they fall within the 1 1/4 mile distance. Which route do you protect first? The official answer seemed to be "Whichever it is most likely a train will approach from". I always said I'd kick a load of ballast between the switch and stock rails to foul the points, then protect the line that the route is set for. With the points fouled, the route cannot be set for the other direction and therefore protected.

hahahaha That's quite an ingenious answer on paper. But would the 'powers of be' see the logic in it?

 

[Wyvern]

Seems more logical to carry then in, say, 12s (a multiple of 3).

Probably did come in packs of 12 until decimalisation.

Think I'm joking? When decimalisation came in a certain brand of marking tape was altered to be sold in ten instead of twelve foot reels

 

[Trog]

A lookout carries 6 for emergency protection.

I remember a favourite question in exams was what to do at junctions if they fall within the 1 1/4 mile distance. Which route do you protect first? The official answer seemed to be "Whichever it is most likely a train will approach from". I always said I'd kick a load of ballast between the switch and stock rails to foul the points, then protect the line that the route is set for. With the points fouled, the route cannot be set for the other direction and therefore protected.

Some of my colleagues and my-self were once on a lookout course at an S&T run training school, when this question came up. The instructor was horrified at how many ways a group of P-Way staff could come up with to sabotage a set of points. In real life it is probably not a big problem as once you have reached such a junction, the protecting signal with it's phone to the box will not be much further.

 

[fairysdad]

Seems more logical to carry then in, say, 12s (a multiple of 3).

Good question. I don't know, to be honest. You might have to protect more than one line when carrying our emergency protection, so you might need more than 3, but you're right, 10 isn't a multiple of 3.

That was the point I was getting at. Does seem a bit odd. I did think that perhaps one was going to be spare in case of malfunction, but you wouldn't know one wasn't working unless it didn't work when a train ran over it.

Ah well. There probably is a mildly rational explanation for it. Probably something British Rail-esque... it wouldn't surprise me if it is the metrication one that Wyvern said - although 15 would have been more suitable than 10... more expensive though.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

That was the point I was getting at. Does seem a bit odd. I did think that perhaps one was going to be spare in case of malfunction, but you wouldn't know one wasn't working unless it didn't work when a train ran over it.

Or in case of visible damage - i.e. the lead clips missing?

 

[Old Timer]

Seems more logical to carry then in, say, 12s (a multiple of 3).

Driver/Guard protection rules
1 at 1/4 mile
1 at 1/2 mile
3 x 20 yds apart at 1&1/4 mile
= 5 detonators

Two track line = 5 for each direction
Four track line = 10 for each direction

Total needed = 10

Supplied in boxes of.....10. So as long as box is sealed there are 10 in the box

Simples

 

[O L Leigh]

Driver/Guard protection rules
1 at 1/4 mile
1 at 1/2 mile
3 x 20 yds apart at 1&1/4 mile
= 5 detonators

Er, not any more. It's just the 3 at 1.25 miles.

O L Leigh

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Er, not any more. It's just the 3 at 1.25 miles.

O L Leigh

Yep just the 3, 1 1/4 miles 20 metres apart unless SBT/Box/Tunnel/Junction or approaching train

 

[Old Timer]

Er, not any more. It's just the 3 at 1.25 miles.

O L Leigh

I was trying to explain the historic reasoning behind the box of 10

 

[nr_signaller]

I was trying to explain the historic reasoning behind the box of 10

Hmm...

 

[O L Leigh]

I was trying to explain the historic reasoning behind the box of 10

Righto.

O L Leigh

 

[red circle]

Driver/Guard protection rules
1 at 1/4 mile
1 at 1/2 mile
3 x 20 yds apart at 1&1/4 mile
= 5 detonators

Two track line = 5 for each direction
Four track line = 10 for each direction

Total needed = 10

Supplied in boxes of.....10. So as long as box is sealed there are 10 in the box

Simples

You beat me to it,we were taught a scenario of a derailed and on fire light engine with the rear cab demolished and foul of opposite running lines but I'm sure our three detonators were to be placed at one mile,that was in the seventies.

 

[Old Timer]

You beat me to it,we were taught a scenario of a derailed and on fire light engine with the rear cab demolished and foul of opposite running lines but I'm sure our three detonators were to be placed at one mile,that was in the seventies.

Correct it became 1&1/4m around 1976 with the advent of HSTs as I recall.

 

[Scotrail84]

Indeed they are, not often granted, but they certainly are. I've only ever put them down once for assistance protection myself. I suppose the majority get sent back after their "best before ". Interestingly, we used to get asked in our rules, "when do fog signals get sent for disposal after their use by" or something similar . They were conveyed on a Thursday night in an explosives box on the sleeper to Preston apparently.

I myself had to put dets down at Cleland after the train hit logs placed on the line and copletely knackered our air. Could only muster up 3 bar with comp speed up the leak was that bad! I volunteered to do it and the driver stayed to keep in touch with control etc.

Atleast i can say ive done it