Detonators

[strange6]

Are these things still used nowadays? I remember the police going around schools some 25 years ago warning all us kids about them and the horrific injuries they could cause. Most of us had never heard of them up until then so we went hunting for them! hahaha Stupid I know but we were only 10 at the time!
I seem to remember the signalman of Southport box placing about 20 of them on the line for the last train at midnight before his box closed for good. Was quite a show when it went over them

 

[scotsman]

Yep, they are still used

 

[CarterUSM]

Indeed they are, not often granted, but they certainly are. I've only ever put them down once for assistance protection myself. I suppose the majority get sent back after their "best before ". Interestingly, we used to get asked in our rules, "when do fog signals get sent for disposal after their use by" or something similar . They were conveyed on a Thursday night in an explosives box on the sleeper to Preston apparently.

 

[TGV]

Indeed - they are used. One caused problems only last month when it was left on a rail by mistake on the ECML after work had completed. First train to Peterborough set it off and naturally the driver stopped to examine.

 

[strange6]

Indeed - they are used. One caused problems only last month when it was left on a rail by mistake on the ECML after work had completed. First train to Peterborough set it off and naturally the driver stopped to examine.

Yeah, I knew the fogmen of yesteryear had a supply of them (Those fellas must have had balls of steel to do that extremely dangerous job) and the old signal boxes had them on racks which would cover the track on the pulling of a lever in times of emergency.
Was also the guards duty to go out and place them himself to the rear of a knackered train I believe? And he had to be bloody quick about it back in those days!

 

[Trog]

In the good old days shooting an unplanned speed to draw the drivers attention to the warning board, was a standard way of using up out of date dets. The hand signalman would often put down two dets together in case one failed to go off. On a mainline you could get through hundreds of dets a day that way. I remember sitting in the remains of an old PW cabin waiting for a job to start, chatting to the hand signalman. The pair of us round a nice warm fire, sitting on plastic sacks full of out of date dets.

 

[strange6]

In the good old days shooting an unplanned speed to draw the drivers attention to the warning board, was a standard way of using up out of date dets. The hand signalman would often put down two dets together in case one failed to go off. On a mainline you could get through hundreds of dets a day that way. I remember sitting in the remains of an old PW cabin waiting for a job to start, chatting to the hand signalman. The pair of us round a nice warm fire, sitting on plastic sacks full of out of date dets.

My god man! It's a miracle you're still with us! I don't think H&S was priority back then going off what you say?

 

[WL113]

Detonators are still used to protect engineering possessions, failed trains and emergency situations.

They have also been used recently in accordance with tradition... The closure of Shirley Signal Box.

Watch this, it must have been loud..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCMcsw-FXnA

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Detonators are still a vital piece of kit, used in emergency protection, also to help protect the line when enginerring work is taking place etc, if I remember correctly they need to be replaced every 5 years, went over some forgotten ones at Romiley a cpl of years ago, certainly woke the passengers and myself up lol

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Yep, still used.

They rely on pressure to blow, so you can chuck them around a bit - and sit on them!

 

[Greeny]

Oh, they are still used alright. I think though stories of how they were used in the past are best not placed in public areas of the Forum. We've had some fun with them though. But as a rule it is not a good idea to mess with them and best said DONT mess with them.

G

 

[TDK]

Yep, still used.

They rely on pressure to blow, so you can chuck them around a bit - and sit on them!

However when they are transported they have to be in an ammunition box

 

[ralphchadkirk]

However when they are transported they have to be in an ammunition box

Never seen them being transported - only in the nice red cylinder in our signalboxes!

 

[northernrail]

last year my 144 failed, and i asked the driver what he was doing, he was putting detonators out.

 

[strange6]

last year my 144 failed, and i asked the driver what he was doing, he was putting detonators out.

So they still carry them on passenger trains then?

 

[pendolino]

So they still carry them on passenger trains then?

Yes, 10 dets per cab. Part of the unit prep is to check they're there and sealed.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

So they still carry them on passenger trains then?

Yes. You must have 10 detonators with you personally if working a locomotive-hauled passenger train (except a push/pull train) or if you are required to ride in a freight brake van.

Any train must have at least 10 detonators on it as part of the emergency equipment (in. TCOCs, red flag etc) as well.

 

[strange6]

Yes. You must have 10 detonators with you personally if working a locomotive-hauled passenger train (except a push/pull train) or if you are required to ride in a freight brake van.

Any train must have at least 10 detonators on it as part of the emergency equipment (in. TCOCs, red flag etc) as well.

So if, for example, a 142 breaks down somewhere remotely, the driver or guard still has to venture forth and place them on the line in rear despite the excellence of the signalling systems today?

 

[GB]

Depending on which direction the assistance is coming from of course.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

So if, for example, a 142 breaks down somewhere remotely, the driver or guard still has to venture forth and place them on the line in rear despite the excellence of the signalling systems today?

If the situation demands protection of the train by detonators then yes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Depending on which direction the assistance is coming from of course.

And let's not get into junctions, tunnels and signalboxes!

 

[pendolino]

So if, for example, a 142 breaks down somewhere remotely, the driver or guard still has to venture forth and place them on the line in rear despite the excellence of the signalling systems today?

Yes - assistance protection. 3 dets 20m apart, generally 300m from the failed train in the direction from which assistance will arrive (could be to the front, could be to the rear).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And let's not get into junctions, tunnels and signalboxes!

4 teas and a sugar!

(Mind you, that's emergency protection, not assistance protection)

 

[ralphchadkirk]

4 teas and a sugar!

(Mind you, that's emergency protection, not assistance protection)

Very true.

 

[strange6]

Yes - assistance protection. 3 dets 20m apart, generally 300m from the failed train in the direction from which assistance will arrive (could be to the front, could be to the rear).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


4 teas and a sugar!

(Mind you, that's emergency protection, not assistance protection)

Oh yes, I had forgotten about the warning for the rescue vehicle. Stupid me!

 

[Hydro]

So if, for example, a 142 breaks down somewhere remotely, the driver or guard still has to venture forth and place them on the line in rear despite the excellence of the signalling systems today?

It's a failsafe system in case the signalman cannot be contacted. You can't be sure that the signalling is working all correctly from the 4ft, hence laying TCOC's as a back up. You may also have to protect a line that your train is not on. If you can contact the signalman before reaching the 1 and a 1/4 mile (i.e. you find a phone), you then place the dets down there, and get on the blower. If you can inform the signalman via CSR or NRN on the train, then I believe there is no requirement to do the 1 and a 1/4 mile.

Anyone undertaking lookout duties as a track worker needs to carry 6 dets, red flag and lamp, and a TCOC also for emergency track protection. I nearly had to protect the line once after a bridge strike, but someone had the controlling box number in their mobile and so the flag and dets went back in the bag. Thankfully, I wasn't feeling too fit that day.

 

[pendolino]

I was about to make a comment about the distances your post Hydro, but you edited

You're talking about emergency protection rather than assistance protection, though.

Hang on, 'blower'? That doesn't start with T!

edit: the other situation where you might need to use emergency protection is where the signaller cannot guarantee protection by fixed signals even if you do get hold of him - e.g., Temporary Block Working.

 

[driver9000]

Yes, the driver will go and lay assistance protection (3 dets, 20 metres apart) 300 yards behind (in rear) of the failed train, or in front if the signalman tells them that assistance will come from the front. The driver will remain at the assistance point with a red flag or lamp at night until the assisting train arrives. If he arrives at a signal or signal box before the assisting point is reached dets are laid at that location, if the assisting point is within a tunnel dets are laid in the tunnel and the Driver then walks through to the far end of the tunnel. If for whatever reason the Signalman cannot be reached the Driver go in the direction they consider is the quickest route to a telephone in which case they would lay dets at 300yds then keep going to a telephone.

Edit - everyone above beat me to it!

 

[strange6]

Yes, the driver will go and lay assistance protection (3 dets, 20 metres apart) 300 yards behind (in rear) of the failed train, or in front if the signalman tells them that assistance will come from the front. The driver will remain at the assistance point with a red flag or lamp at night until the assisting train arrives. If he arrives at a signal or signal box before the assisting point is reached dets are laid at that location, if the assisting point is within a tunnel dets are laid in the tunnel and the Driver then walks through to the far end of the tunnel. If for whatever reason the Signalman cannot be reached the Driver go in the direction they consider is the quickest route to a telephone in which case they would lay dets at 300yds then keep going to a telephone.

Edit - everyone above beat me to it!

Jesus. I bet that's a scary job at night out in the middle of nowhere and possibly a tunnel as well.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Jesus. I bet that's a scary job at night out in the middle of nowhere and possibly a tunnel as well.

Keep your wits about you and you would be fine. As long as you're not scared of the dark!

 

[pendolino]

Jesus. I bet that's a scary job at night out in the middle of nowhere and possibly a tunnel as well.

Well, you're supposed to take your lamp with you (anyone still got a Bardic?) so it's not too bad.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes, the driver will go and lay assistance protection (3 dets, 20 metres apart) 300 yards behind (in rear) of the failed train, or in front if the signalman tells them that assistance will come from the front. The driver will remain at the assistance point with a red flag or lamp at night until the assisting train arrives. If he arrives at a signal or signal box before the assisting point is reached dets are laid at that location, if the assisting point is within a tunnel dets are laid in the tunnel and the Driver then walks through to the far end of the tunnel. If for whatever reason the Signalman cannot be reached the Driver go in the direction they consider is the quickest route to a telephone in which case they would lay dets at 300yds then keep going to a telephone.

Edit - everyone above beat me to it!

Text book answer

(Just to add, you don't need to use emergency protection in areas of permissive working)

editedit: by which I mean assistance. Not emergency. getting confused now.

 

[Hydro]

I was about to make a comment about the distances your post Hydro, but you edited

You're talking about emergency protection rather than assistance protection, though.

Yes, brain fart and a new keyboard don't help matters True enough, that's emergency protection.

Remember, detonators need to be disposed of properly once out of date, not tied to fishplates and dropped off bridges. No sirree.