Destination blinds, same entry appearing multiple times

[py_megapixel]

Is/was it fairly common for trains and buses to have roller destination blinds where the same text appeared on the blind multiple times? Does anyone know of any examples?

I've definitely seen a few run-throughs of the ones on TfL buses, where "Not in service" appears several times. Presumably this is done to make it faster to change the blind at the end of a journey.

 

[Ken H]

Is/was it fairly common for trains and buses to have roller destination blinds where the same text appeared on the blind multiple times? Does anyone know of any examples?

I've definitely seen a few run-throughs of the ones on TfL buses, where "Not in service" appears several times. Presumably this is done to make it faster to change the blind at the end of a journey.

Leeds City Transport buses used to have 'Central Bus Station' several times to save loads of winding at terminals. I am sure DMU's were the same. A Neville Hill DMU would probably have several 'Leeds' entries.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Is/was it fairly common for trains and buses to have roller destination blinds where the same text appeared on the blind multiple times? Does anyone know of any examples?

I've definitely seen a few run-throughs of the ones on TfL buses, where "Not in service" appears several times. Presumably this is done to make it faster to change the blind at the end of a journey.

Private, not in service, school service all come immediately to mind as being multiple times on the LUT GMT bus blinds I watched being changed as a kid in the early 1980's

 

[RT4038]

Is/was it fairly common for trains and buses to have roller destination blinds where the same text appeared on the blind multiple times? Does anyone know of any examples?

I've definitely seen a few run-throughs of the ones on TfL buses, where "Not in service" appears several times. Presumably this is done to make it faster to change the blind at the end of a journey.

Buses allocated to large depots with lengthy (sixty point plus) destination blinds would often have the 'home town' duplicated in several places to speed up changes and to incentivise certain staff from displaying 'blank' or 'Service' for laziness. (Particularly if the home town begins with B and the destination W, with eight round trips on the shift!). Corporation buses often had 'City' or some such duplicated many times, esp. if cross-centre routes were not a thing.

Of course many places didn't have the blinds arranged in alphabetical order, but in groups of routes, and often had places duplicated as a result.

 

[Albaman]

I am fairly sure that on Scottish based EMUs and EMUs a destination appeared only once.

Before dot matrix screens became the norm on First Glasgow buses, some destination appeared more than once, for example the home depot of the vehicle. I am sure other destinations, for example ones served by number of routes , appeared several times usually close to the other terminus or short journey destinations for that particular route.

Going further back in time, I am sure in the 1960s on the screens used on Glasgow Corporation buses , a destination appeared only once and in my brief ( and not very successful ) career as a conductor with Alexander's ( Midland ),at the depot where I worked, destinations appeared only once on their blinds.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Not sure about train roller blinds but I know that Sheffield had multiple entries on bus blinds back in the 80s.

Back in the day Sheffield double deckers had a top and a bottom blind. The top blind was mainly regular destinations and the bottom blind was mainly the oddments like Special, Football, Izal Factory (yes really!) and also a selection of destinations. However this could vary as you could get Sheffield twice on the top blind or once on the top and once on the bottom blind. Sheffield and Sheffield City Centre could be on the same top blind. Adding into the mix was that things could vary even further depending on which of the various Sheffield depots the bus was based or even if it was from Rotherham or Doncaster depots.

I used to love watching drivers scroll through the blinds looking for a particular destination and then finding they had to go all the way back as they have scrolled the wrong way!
All this was well before the days of flipdot/Hanover displays which are now the norm these days.

 

[Roger1973]

Yes, on a lot of blinds, 'city centre' or equivalent would appear a number of times. Policy did vary from one operator to another, some would make an effort to put two termini of one route next to each other on the blind, others would rigidly stick to alphabetic order (maybe why some crews tended to leave 'service' up.

On (Aldenham era) London Transport blinds, the ultimate destination blind at all but the smallest garages was made in to a chunk for each route (or pair of routes that had a lot of points in common) for example, a Catford Garage ultimate points blind might have the route 1 and 47 destinations alphabetically, then the route 54 and 75 destinations (again alphabetically) and so on.

Common points like Catford Garage and Lewisham would appear in each section that needed them. In later years, there tended to be a white blank or two between each section.

When I've seen recent smart blinds changing, it looks as though destinations aren't repeated, but can't be certain of this.

 

[Beebman]

I own a blind from a Class 117 WR DMU which I'd guess is around late 70s/early 80s vintage. It has no duplicated names, it's just an alphabetical listing but very conveniently Oxford, Paddington and Reading are consecutively together and they're the only destinations on the blind where there's any signs of heavy usage. Otherwise it's in near-pristine condition as many of the other names were probably little used and some might well have never been used, e.g. Birmingham, Leamington Spa, Hereford and Westbury. (It just has 'Birmingham' on its own without Moor St or New St.)

 

[Ken H]

Dunno how much blinds cost, but some operators will have cut costs by not duplicating. But others will have seen the benefits of duplication. Spose it depends on the length of the roll.

 

[MotCO]

I would also assume placing multiple destinations throughout a blind would save on wear and tear. Having to constantly wind a blind through many destinations would wear them out more quickly than if only a few turns were required.

 

[MadMac]

I own a blind from a Class 117 WR DMU which I'd guess is around late 70s/early 80s vintage. It has no duplicated names, it's just an alphabetical listing but very conveniently Oxford, Paddington and Reading are consecutively together and they're the only destinations on the blind where there's any signs of heavy usage. Otherwise it's in near-pristine condition as many of the other names were probably little used and some might well have never been used, e.g. Birmingham, Leamington Spa, Hereford and Westbury. (It just has 'Birmingham' on its own without Moor St or New St.)

There’s a full section on first generation DMU blinds HERE.

 

[Snow1964]

It was common in London, prior to power operated smartblinds.

Generally would be formed with a routes 2 normal terminus destinations adjacent to each other for the garages routes, with routes often paired either side of a common terminus. As an example my local buses had Kingston about 4 times

Then the remainder of the blind had all the other destinations and short workings that might be needed

 

[jp4712]

Here’s a case in point, one of the blinds in my bus. Stockport appears six times. Otherwise the destinations appear alphabetically up to Wythenshawe, then start again for the destinations served from the small Wilmslow garage.

Stockport and Wilmslow blind, North Western Road Car Company by Paul Williams, on Flickr

 

[Beebman]

There’s a full section on first generation DMU blinds HERE.

Thanks for that - as the site only has the first half of the blind which I have I'll get in touch with them to provide the missing info.

 

[Fokx]

I have a collection of quite a few bus blinds from 1990 onwards.

Some operators likes to use alphabetical destinations, some operators liked to order their blind based on the most popular destinations first, but the most usual one I have is a complete destination blind from Arriva Speke Depot which has the route number relivant to the via point shown to the driver and therefore terminals such as ‘Liverpool Airport’ and ‘Liverpool City Centre’ appear in double digits.

 

[40129]

IIRC Sprinter DMUs had alphabetical order roller blinds with each station listed only once and 'Not in Public Use' being roughly in the middle. ISTR winding through one at Tyseley depot open day and being surprised at how comprehensive the blind was (all three Birmingham were included individually). I kind of feel sorry for anyone having to set them for a Wolverhampton - Aberystwyth round trip (NB: New Street - Aberystwyth wouldn't have been much better!).

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

IIRC Sprinter DMUs had alphabetical order roller blinds with each station listed only once and 'Not in Public Use' being roughly in the middle. ISTR winding through one at Tyseley depot open day and being surprised at how comprehensive the blind was (all three Birmingham were included individually). I kind of feel sorry for anyone having to set them for a Wolverhampton - Aberystwyth round trip (NB: New Street - Aberystwyth wouldn't have been much better!).

Surely you could just go the other way round i.e. wind counter clockwise rather that clockwise

 

[Fokx]

Surely you could just go the other way round i.e. wind counter clockwise rather that clockwise

Destination blinds are a bit like cassette tapes or VHS tapes, as in they’re not continuous and once you get to the end of the roll you have to wind it back the other way again

 

[Goldfish62]

Common points like Catford Garage and Lewisham would appear in each section that needed them. In later years, there tended to be a white blank or two between each section.

When I've seen recent smart blinds changing, it looks as though destinations aren't repeated, but can't be certain of this.

There's less point in duplication on power blinds, although of course constant changing of destinations at opposite ends of a long blind may wear out the motors quicker.

The reason for white blanks is for inserts should they be required in future.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

Not sure about train roller blinds but I know that Sheffield had multiple entries on bus blinds back in the 80s.

Back in the day Sheffield double deckers had a top and a bottom blind. The top blind was mainly regular destinations and the bottom blind was mainly the oddments like Special, Football, Izal Factory (yes really!) and also a selection of destinations. However this could vary as you could get Sheffield twice on the top blind or once on the top and once on the bottom blind. Sheffield and Sheffield City Centre could be on the same top blind. Adding into the mix was that things could vary even further depending on which of the various Sheffield depots the bus was based or even if it was from Rotherham or Doncaster depots.

I used to love watching drivers scroll through the blinds looking for a particular destination and then finding they had to go all the way back as they have scrolled the wrong way!
All this was well before the days of flipdot/Hanover displays which are now the norm these days.

I seem to recall that just before they were merged into the West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive, most City of Birmingham bus routes ran from the city centre to a suburban destination and back again, and that the buses had a main blind which always showed the suburban destination plus a smaller blind that simply said "To City" or "From City" - so during a normal shift, the only change would be to change the smaller blind one position forwards or backwards.

 

[Anvil1984]

IIRC Sprinter DMUs had alphabetical order roller blinds with each station listed only once and 'Not in Public Use' being roughly in the middle. ISTR winding through one at Tyseley depot open day and being surprised at how comprehensive the blind was (all three Birmingham were included individually). I kind of feel sorry for anyone having to set them for a Wolverhampton - Aberystwyth round trip (NB: New Street - Aberystwyth wouldn't have been much better!).

Quite, In Northern land I'm sure it was the case that Not In Use / Special were at the end. Just remember it being a pain in the rear when a 14x or 15x was used instead of the booked 158 on Blackpool North to York, even Bishop Auck to Saltburn wasnt fun

 

[Towers]

I was always particularly fascinated by blinds which contained 'ambitious' or indeed outright silly destinations; one that comes to mind is Portsmouth Harbour on a Class 143!

Discovering that the original side blind was still present when doing a shift driving a cascaded ex-London Dart was also a joy, some interesting stuff such as a full colour 'driver under instruction' complete with red L, some 'bus for hire' stuff and a selection of other exotica (by provincial operator standards!). What was notable about some of the London stuff was that while there was a decent selection of goodies as above, the actual range of proper service destinations was very limited; obviously this would have varied considerably depending on the London depot which the bus had come from.

Not 'blinds', but the original Class 158 electronic screens had some good ones in the database; Blackpool Pleasure Beach (an odd terminus point!), Manchester United Football Ground and Mystery Tour were personal favourites!

 

[O L Leigh]

When I drove units with “windy blinds” I found that some destinations were replicated. Not only that but they were divided into sections by route, which made things a little easier.

Former WAGN unit blinds were divided into WA and GN destinations while the former FGE Cl315s had GE and LTS sections. This meant that Liverpool Street, Stratford, Not in Service and maybe one or two others appeared more than once. Eventually the Cl315s received blinds with WA and GE sections only, but the replication continued. If memory serves they were also arranged somewhat more logically too, with Liverpool Street and Not in Service at the start of each section.

On the matter of blind exotica, the old WAGN blinds included York, Leeds and the as yet still unwired Spalding.

 

[davehsug]

This thread has reminded me just how much I miss real destination blinds! In the early-mid 70s, my friend & I would spend ages at The Tower or Pleasure Beach in Blackpool just before illuminations switch-on time. Waiting for the many tour cars they had in those days, to wind through to the end of the blind whre "Tour of Illuminations" sat, just to see some of the more unusual destinations being wound through, keeping a note of the cars that had the best! They usually had the popular and occasional destinations at the top of the blind, then a gap & then the rarities beneath with the tours.
Just to keep with the thread, most blinds had Fleetwood & Starr Gate next to each other for ease of use.

 

[Beebman]

I've just managed to find a late 60s/early 70s Thames Valley bus blind from Newbury which was lurking in my attic, the name of that town appears 6 times on it plus there's a 'Bus Station' presumably used by local routes. (also Reading appears twice.)

 

[172007]

Slightly off topic but does save winding a via blind are the buses in Birmingham that have as their destination "Roughly via Sutton Coldfield". Think the drivers make theory own route up.

 

[Jan]

Another instance of duplication I've seen in Germany was due to a combination with motorised side blinds: At the front/rear the vehicle had separate blinds for line and destination, whereas on the side both were combined into one blind. So for the regular terminals, the side blinds contained two sets of entries: One showing the full gamut of line + via points + destination for the exterior display (and a line diagram with all the stops on for the vehicle interior), and another entry with just the plain destination (both on the exterior and interior side) for any out-of-course and other special workings.

Because the blinds were motorised and in order to simplify the control system, those duplicated entries were repeated on the front/rear blinds as well, but because the front/rear blinds didn't display via points and had a separate set of blinds for the line, those destinations appeared twice in identical from on the front/rear destination blinds.