Despatch procedure SWR

[Monty]

Sounds like you have no confidence in your driver of their ability to follow the swt/swr driving policy.....

It's nothing to do with that at all, it's me ensuring the train is properly accommodated prior to releasing the doors end of story.

Which I hasten to add is my job (or part of it).

 

[LowLevel]

Interesting. I am wondering what happened in the days of slam door stock and the 'pea-soupers'? We do indeed live in a different world nowadays. I don't remember reports of pax falling into the cess in those days. Perhaps my memory is failing.

Your memory is failing. I believe by the early 90s incidents with slam doors were the number 1 cause of passenger injuries and deaths.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Your memory is failing. I believe by the early 90s incidents with slam doors were the number 1 cause of passenger injuries and deaths.

Some of them must have been in platforms when people opened the doors before the train had stopped and the door whacks someone. Peak times there must have been times when every passenger door was opening or open before the train had even slowed down to 5mph

 

[Antman]

Your memory is failing. I believe by the early 90s incidents with slam doors were the number 1 cause of passenger injuries and deaths.

I think he was soley referring to deaths and injuries from passengers opening doors when the train wasn't aligned to the platform?

 

[Antman]

I had wrongly assumed that the driver released the doors and the guard closed them, isn't this a safer method or am I missing something?

 

[headshot119]

I had wrongly assumed that the driver released the doors and the guard closed them, isn't this a safer method or am I missing something?

Driver stops at a 4 car stop board with an 8 car train after a lapse in concentration, and hits door release.

It's safer to have a guard step out, look both ways, then hit release.

 

[The Ham]

I had wrongly assumed that the driver released the doors and the guard closed them, isn't this a safer method or am I missing something?

Shhh...

It is a different method of working which other TOC's use; we'll leave it there as otherwise this thread becomes a whole other discussion which has been gone over on several other threads.

 

[Antman]

Shhh...

It is a different method of working which other TOC's use; we'll leave it there as otherwise this thread becomes a whole other discussion which has been gone over on several other threads.

Fair enough!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Some of us on TPE have short legs so we are allowed to stay on cab floor and loom out if it offers us a better view of the platform. However we still have to open the local door first and step out onto the platform once doors have been released.

 

[LowLevel]

I think he was soley referring to deaths and injuries from passengers opening doors when the train wasn't aligned to the platform?

I know - sorry, I was perhaps being a little obtuse - the old rose tinted 'back in my day we didn't have any health and safety and we all got on fine' is a bit of a bugbear of mine because if you do your research it's generally found to be rubbish and in the good old days of blokes wearing a flat cap and doing what they had to do the railway killed plenty of it's staff and a good number of passengers to boot.

Anecdotally there are plenty of cases of trains stopping short on bridges and so on during the WW2 blackouts and indeed pea soupers with people stepping out of trains to their death.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Out of curiosity, I have a related question...

Are guards trained to watch out of the window as the train departs to check that the train has cleared the platform without any issues? I've noticed that sometimes when I board a train where the guard stands they will do this - they won't lock the door panel until the last car is clear of the platform.

If this is the case, what exactly are they watching out for and what could they possibly do about it once the train is already accelerating?

However, it's not consistent. I'd estimate that the majority of guards don't do this and will talk to you, sell you a ticket, etc. while the train is leaving the platform.

Yes, this varies by TOC. A lot of SWT guards as you say, will be making announcements or helping passengers as soon as they give the right away to the driver. The other thing to note is that guards on SWT can despatch the train from any part of the train (on the desiros and the 158). So on a ten coach train, guards can despatch the train from the very front if they wish and so even if they watch out of the window, they are certainly not going to be able to watch the entire train leave the platform.

Compare this to GWR. They are much stricter about this and you will always find their Train Managers despatch the train from the rear or towards the rear even though CDL panels can be found throughout the train. With the HSTs, they will have their head outside the window and one hand on the CDL panel ready to give the signal if necessary. On the adelantes, they will be square on with the door looking outside. Note that there will be 0 distractions so even a passenger has an enquiry, the Train Manager will politely tell the passenger to wait. Announcements will not be made until after the despatch procedure has been completed (i.e. train has left the platform).
The platform staff will do the same. So as the train passes them, they will say bye to the Train Manager (not that this is procedure ) and then get perpendicular to the train/platform and keep watching until the entirety of the train has left the platform.

So the despatch procedure varies by TOC. I was not criticising SWT guards by the way and not suggesting they are not following procedure. But I guess SWT management or the way they are trained up is so that looking out of the window is not a fundamental part of the despatch procedure.

 

[bb21]

Sounds like you have no confidence in your driver of their ability to follow the swt/swr driving policy.....

Blind faith causes safety incidents. He is doing everything he is expected to do. Your criticism is very much misplaced and unfair.

Guards should be acting as an extra pair of eyes. Acting in any other way would be irresponsible and would be cause for disciplinary action.

Same applies to drivers.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think this slight relaxation of SWT procedures came in shortly after the full ASDO roll out on the mainline trains. IIRC an SWT guard posted about it at back then, but a quick search hasn't found it yet.

I'm fairly sure though that as has been mentioned so far, the OP noticing it recently is just a coincidence, and nothing to do with the franchise change.

 

[pompeyfan]

Just to clarify, all SWR guards must see the train (or at least where they're standing) out of the platform. If a guard is caught by anyone of management grade doing revenue duties or customer service (announcements on the PA are a grey area I find) then they can expect to be having a meeting no tea and no biscuits as it's in direct breech of the rule book. Use of a mobile phone during that time would be classed as the same.

 

[E_Reeves]

Are guards not allowed to position themselves in the front cab? What about the front corridor behind cabs in class 150s for example?

 

[Monty]

Are guards not allowed to position themselves in the front cab? What about the front corridor behind cabs in class 150s for example?

Technically no, they have to remain at their local door until the train has left the platform. I know there has been some lobbying to have this requirement changed where it is appropriate (ie moving from a cab door to a cab window on a 455) but nothing as of yet has changed.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Wouldn't the cab window of the rear cab of the rear unit be the best place to monitor the train from as it departs (assuming that there's a window that the guard can slide down to look out of)?

 

[Matt Taylor]

When the platform is shorter than the train do guards generally try and use the last door that is supposed to be released as their local door?

No, you still need to use a local door that gives you a full view of the train unless platform staff are provided. You should also be checking to ensure ASDO has worked correctly and it hasn't opened more doors than it should, this is something that happened to me once and ever since then I've always been very careful to make that check.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Are guards not allowed to position themselves in the front cab? What about the front corridor behind cabs in class 150s for example?

There are very strict rules about when guards are allowed to enter the leading cab: if a failure of guard's door controls meant that the forward cab had the only working controls then the guard would have to wait until the train had come to a complete stand before entering the cab to initiate door release and likewise leave the cab before the train subsequently departed. It would also require Control's agreement.

As for the forward vestibule of 150s, prior to James Street these were used very regularly.

Wouldn't the cab window of the rear cab of the rear unit be the best place to monitor the train from as it departs (assuming that there's a window that the guard can slide down to look out of)?

It has been mentioned in various threads over the years how most current traction doesn't really allow guards to properly maintain surveillance of the PTI during departure and even if opening windows were provided at all possible dispatch positions in the train the guard would still have difficulty watching the whole train. And that's before you consider adverse curves. If we were really concerned with this then all those bodyside cameras sending images to screens in drivers' cabs would instead send those signals to screens in guards' control panels. I don't expect this will ever happen however.