Despatch Procedure at Manned Stations

[DunfordBridge]

When with your DI what mistakes did you make that your DI had to correct? May help others

For instance I remember having received the close door indicator at a manned station seeing on the DOO cameras that a passenger was desperately trying to get on board the train. We sat and sat and in the end I re-released the doors. This was incorrect as station staff are in control of manned stations and having closed the doors you do not normally re-released unless they ask.

Just picked this up on the opening post of another recent thread (Mistakes as a Trainee), I was intrigued to discover that the driver is not able to make the decision about re-opening the doors for the desperate passenger trying to get on board, no doubt as delays could be incurred to other services. Is the driver at his discretion not able to seek permission from the station staff to re-open the doors (which I imagine would not be a very quick discussion), or is it the case that once the despatch procedure has been initiated, the train is committed to leaving the station.

I am guessing that the passenger rushed up to the train as it was about to leave and that it was on somewhere like the Thameslink routes where it would not have been a long wait for the next service.

Supposing, the train was not Driver Only Operated and the guard was in charge of operating the doors, would the guard similarly have to obey the decision by the station staff and keep the doors shut ready for imminent departure? If the station was unmanned, and a passenger appears from nowhere at the last minute, I am guessing that similar rules apply. I am not sure how much leeway is allowed for discretion.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

At a manned CD/RA station, if someone just missed it after CD and the doors closing then tough, there's no way for the staff practically to ask the driver to re-open the doors without causing delay.
If that person is stuck in the doors, and I as the driver could see this, then I probably would re-release the doors. No point sitting there viewing someone stuck in the doors but waiting for staff to walk up and ask you to open the doors just because that's the instruction.
The close doors instruction, be it CD or a bat, can be done again once given, in that the CD equipment can be operated as many times as wanted if the signal is off. Sometimes staff like to "flash" CD to try and hurry drivers up lol.
But I believe once RA is given from an RA indicator it cannot be taken back until the signal itself is returned to on.

As for guards, I've no idea, but as a DOO driver, it largely depends on whether the late runner is causing an obstruction etc, imo it's safer for someone to be in the train rather than running along as you depart hammering the door buttons.

 

[DunfordBridge]

If that person is stuck in the doors, and I as the driver could see this, then I probably would re-release the doors. No point sitting there viewing someone stuck in the doors but waiting for staff to walk up and ask you to open the doors just because that's the instruction.

Sounds like perfect common sense to me by taking the initiative.

But I believe once RA is given from an RA indicator it cannot be taken back until the signal itself is returned to on.

Would that involve further communication with the signaller on part of the driver, or the platform staff, to set the signal to on?

As for guards, I've no idea, but as a DOO driver, it largely depends on whether the late runner is causing an obstruction etc, imo it's safer for someone to be in the train rather than running along as you depart hammering the door buttons.

Would you literally have to wait for the station staff to approach the button hammering passenger before given the right away? I know at York, the platform staff tend to shout at offending passengers at the top of their voices.

 

[387star]

I hadn't received the RA. I received the CD and closed the doors. The passenger who was trying to get in was trying and trying to board whilst CD was still displayed. I thought screw it and re-released. I should have consulted my DI who also said I made the platform staff look like *****
This was late at night at Gatwick

 

[387star]

The passenger wasn't trapped in the doors but was hammering at the buttons with two platform staff not able to move him away.

 

[DunfordBridge]

I hadn't received the RA. I received the CD and closed the doors. The passenger who was trying to get in was trying and trying to board whilst CD was still displayed. I thought screw it and re-released. I should have consulted my DI who also said I made the platform staff look like *****
This was late at night at Gatwick

The passenger wasn't trapped in the doors but was hammering at the buttons with two platform staff not able to move him away.

I have stayed the night in a hotel in Gatwick, otherwise I would not want to be around there late at night and I can see why the passenger was quite frantic. It might have been his last train to wherever, but you think they would have got there in good time considering the time of night. I hope the passenger was thankful.

 

[387star]

I have stayed the night in a hotel in Gatwick, otherwise I would not want to be around there late at night and I can see why the passenger was quite frantic. It might have been his last train to wherever, but you think they would have got there in good time considering the time of night. I hope the passenger was thankful.

As have I. Waiting and waiting for a taxi which went to the wrong location breathing in foul exhaust after putting a train away in the sidings . Taxi went to Atlanta House. Still not a clue where that is but Gatwick is massive

 

[tlionhart]

Those doo monitors can sometimes be difficult to work out if someone’s hammering the door buttons or generally got a piece of clothing stuck in the door. After closing the doors, I won’t move until I see their arm move away. If it doesn’t move, I’ll release the doors. Remember, you can still gain traction interlock with clothing or walking sticks in the door!

I personally think your DI is unreasonable and wrong to class your actions as a mistake. If you didn’t feel something was safe, you done the right thing. Sure the platform staff will look like idiots to the passenger but on the plus side they can be enjoying a cuppa than arguing about dispatching the train. Also during the dispatch process, if it does become messy, make a clear understanding with the dispatcher. It is also the driver/guards/dispatcher responsibility for a clear dispatch corridor.
If someone is drunk and leaning on your train, do not move until they are away. You’ll be held accountable if they fall between the train and platform. (Happened in Liverpool with a girl on drugs. Guard got sent to prison as he hoped the trains movement would encourage her to step away...which it didn’t. She was high on drugs) so it should be added you have a duty of care too.

 

[DunfordBridge]

As have I. Waiting and waiting for a taxi which went to the wrong location breathing in foul exhaust after putting a train away in the sidings . Taxi went to Atlanta House. Still not a clue where that is but Gatwick is massive

Definitely did not sound like your lucky night. At least there is plenty going off at Gatwick.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2020 ==

It is also the driver/guards/dispatcher responsibility for a clear dispatch corridor.
If someone is drunk and leaning on your train, do not move until they are away. You’ll be held accountable if they fall between the train and platform. (Happened in Liverpool with a girl on drugs. Guard got sent to prison as he hoped the trains movement would encourage her to step away...which it didn’t. She was high on drugs) so it should be added you have a duty of care too.

Really bad call on the part of the guard but were there any platform staff present whilst all this is going off? Personally, I do not think this woman should have been allowed anywhere near the platforms but that is easier said than done. It is a good thing that you have posted this because it serves as a wake up call for everyone to to remain vigilant.