Deregularisation of Avanti Birmingham trains

[nw1]

Apologies: this is probably a "suck eggs" type question but I haven't been anywhere near the WCML since pre-Covid.

I've noticed that the Avanti service from Euston to Birmingham has become distinctly irregular - the most irregular I ever remember it. In the 80s I recall there was an even-interval 30 min service from Euston to Birmingham and more recently it had become a 20-min service.

However now, there is an xx16 and xx40 out of Euston and the latter (more limited-stop) almost catches up the former. It's similar in the up direction.

How come they are now unable to operate an even-interval service? One might think a 30 min even interval service would be possible. Obviously there's a reason but intrigued to know what it is.

By contrast the LNWR timetable (the 'first class' discussion on LNWR prompted me to look at its timetable) is a very even-interval, regular timetable - more than it's been for years (and they still manage to run a good number of peak extras which is refreshing in the current climate). One might think that might help Avanti to run a 30-min interval regular service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The plan is for 2tph clockface calling at Coventry, Intl and New St (one of which continues to Scotland) plus a separate 1tph semifast service calling at Watford Jn, MKC and Rugby. However there isn't the resource to operate that at the moment, so the Scottish service runs in the slow path then waits for the fast path at New St (and vice versa). This should be fixed when the 807s arrive.

The new LNR timetable is an utter masterpiece (in particular the Swiss style connections onto the Marston Vale - it arrives, you get a full set of calls then it departs) - or it would if it wasn't buses! But the corresponding Avanti one isn't being run in full yet.

 

[hexagon789]

Apologies: this is probably a "suck eggs" type question but I haven't been anywhere near the WCML since pre-Covid.

I've noticed that the Avanti service from Euston to Birmingham has become distinctly irregular - the most irregular I ever remember it. In the 80s I recall there was an even-interval 30 min service from Euston to Birmingham and more recently it had become a 20-min service.

However now, there is an xx16 and xx40 out of Euston and the latter (more limited-stop) almost catches up the former. It's similar in the up direction.

How come they are now unable to operate an even-interval service? One might think a 30 min even interval service would be possible. Obviously there's a reason but intrigued to know what it is.

By contrast the LNWR timetable (the 'first class' discussion on LNWR prompted me to look at its timetable) is a very even-interval, regular timetable - more than it's been for years (and they still manage to run a good number of peak extras which is refreshing in the current climate). One might think that might help Avanti to run a 30-min interval regular service.

@Bletchleyite has very succinctly explained it.

Effectively the Virgin introduced 3tph service frequency remains but is split into a half-hourly fast service which has some calls removed, these are then inserted into a separate hourly semi-fast.

The latter will be 807 operated.

 

[nw1]

The plan is for 2tph clockface calling at Coventry, Intl and New St (one of which continues to Scotland) plus a separate 1tph semifast service calling at Watford Jn, MKC and Rugby. However there isn't the resource to operate that at the moment, so the Scottish service runs in the slow path then waits for the fast path at New St (and vice versa). This should be fixed when the 807s arrive.

Ah ok - thanks for that, that explains it.

The new LNR timetable is an utter masterpiece (in particular the Swiss style connections onto the Marston Vale - it arrives, you get a full set of calls then it departs) - or it would if it wasn't buses! But the corresponding Avanti one isn't being run in full yet.

I saw you make that comment elsewhere so checked it out, it does manage to nicely combine a regular clockface timetable with peak extras, which is nice.

 

[Man_with_beard]

I don't like the new timetable. There was nothing wrong with the previous timetable why on earth change to this way all it does now is slow down Manchester passengers while Birmingham passengers can now enjoy a more faster service. I thought the whole idea of a "recast" was to improve the whole network not just improve a part of it.

 

[The Planner]

I don't like the new timetable. There was nothing wrong with the previous timetable why on earth change to this way all it does now is slow down Manchester passengers while Birmingham passengers can now enjoy a more faster service. I thought the whole idea of a "recast" was to improve the whole network not just improve a part of it.

This one performs better and provides more journey opportunities. A recast cannot improve everything.

 

[hexagon789]

I don't like the new timetable. There was nothing wrong with the previous timetable why on earth change to this way all it does now is slow down Manchester passengers while Birmingham passengers can now enjoy a more faster service. I thought the whole idea of a "recast" was to improve the whole network not just improve a part of it.

Comparing the current timetable with May:

Current -
Up: 2h12, 2h06, 2h14
Down: 2h06, 2h11, 2h12

May -
Down: 2h12, 2h06, 2h14
Up: 2h06, 2h11, 2h12


It appears to be the same, so I take it this 'slow down' isn't in the upcoming May timetable but the future one which will contain the askew 3tph Birmingham pattern and the extra Liverpool?

Or is this in comparison with the VHF timetable introduced by Virgin where the standard Manchester timing was 2h07?

 

[Watershed]

Comparing the current timetable with May:

Current -
Up: 2h12, 2h06, 2h14
Down: 2h06, 2h11, 2h12

May -
Down: 2h12, 2h06, 2h14
Up: 2h06, 2h11, 2h12


It appears to be the same, so I take it this 'slow down' isn't in the upcoming May timetable but the future one which will contain the askew 3tph Birmingham pattern and the extra Liverpool?

Or is this in comparison with the VHF timetable introduced by Virgin where the standard Manchester timing was 2h07?

The major recast already happened in December, although the reductions (partly staff based, but unfortunately likely also DfT enforced) mean that you don't quite get the full picture on the Birmingham services. You'd have to compare this with pre-December timings, which were broadly as per the VHF timetable.

 

[nw1]

The major recast already happened in December, although the reductions (partly staff based, but unfortunately likely also DfT enforced) mean that you don't quite get the full picture on the Birmingham services. You'd have to compare this with pre-December timings, which were broadly as per the VHF timetable.

I hope the government are not pushing the suspension of Birmingham's long-standing clockface service! (To be fair @Bletchleyite has given another - I would guess more likely - reason, i.e. the current shortage of stock which will be resolved with the 807s).

When the full new timetable comes in, though, it does look a sensible one - I would say a 30-min fast service to Birmingham, non-stop to Coventry, is sensible, and the extra semi-fast provides connectivity for intermediate stations.

 

[Class 170101]

But is it actally a shortage of Stock?

I thought Class 805s / 807s were replacing Class 221 Trains?

 

[nw1]

But is it actally a shortage of Stock?

I thought Class 805s / 807s were replacing Class 221 Trains?

Looking at @Bletchleyite's post it looks like these are planned to run the Birmingham semi-fasts as well.

 

[krus_aragon]

But is it actally a shortage of Stock?

I thought Class 805s / 807s were replacing Class 221 Trains?

There's 23 805/7 units on order, replacing 20 221s, two of which are in long-term storage (per Wikipedia). So the eventual timetable can expect to have five additional units available.

 

[Watershed]

There's 23 805/7 units on order, replacing 20 221s, two of which are in long-term storage (per Wikipedia). So the eventual timetable can expect to have five additional units available.

Those additional units are earmarked for the additional Liverpool services. Avanti has enough units to run a more intensive Birmingham service, they just don't have the crew or DfT authorisation to do it.

 

[krus_aragon]

Those additional units are earmarked for the additional Liverpool services. Avanti has enough units to run a more intensive Birmingham service, they just don't have the crew or DfT authorisation to do it.

I hadn't twigged that all the additional units were required for Liverpool services; I thought the extra slack was to be used in the various service improvements around the franchise (though a lot of those have been abandoned since the franchise was let).