Derbyshire Wayfarer Ranger

[taxidave]

I am travelling to Derby next week and thought I might also go to Nottingham and Sheffield and then finish back at Derby for my return home.
I have looked at the National Rail website and they have a Derbyshire Wayfarer Ranger ticket but I am a little confused. Firstly there are two Rangers available, one is called DWR (from Nottingham and Beeston) and costs £11.40 or £5.70 with senior rail card and the other one is DWR (purchase within Derbyshire) and costs £8.90 or £4.45 with senior rail card. The first one states that "This price includes travel from Nottingham to Langley Mill or Long Eaton" so I presume that this is the one I will have to purchase if I want to get to Nottingham from Derby and then on to Sheffield; but in the "Fares" section of the website it only says this price covers travel between Nottingham to Langley Mill or Long Eaton for adults and children and does not mention it in the "Concession" section.
Your advice please.

 

[yorkie]

The basic Wayfarer is £8.90, no Railcard discounts, however there is a Senior/Child rate (£4.45).

There are add-ons available for travel from Nottingham, I have never bought one, the website says

Nottingham and Beeston stations sell special Derbyshire Wayfarer tickets which also include rail travel from those stations to Long Eaton or Langley Mill. These tickets are priced at £14.80 (adult) and £7.40 (concessionary). Group tickets are not available from these stations.

The concessionary fare of £7.40 applies to you if you are over 60, it does not appear to be a requirement to hold a Senior Railcard.


http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/transp...rover_tickets/derbyshire_wayfarer/default.asp

 

[OwlMan]

I am not sure that the Nottingham extension is valid for what you require.
AIUI the Nottingham extension adds a return from Nottingham to Long Eaton or Langley Mill not a return from Long Eaton/Langlry Mill to Nottingham.

Peter

 

[taxidave]

I am not sure that the Nottingham extension is valid for what you require.
AIUI the Nottingham extension adds a return from Nottingham to Long Eaton or Langley Mill not a return from Long Eaton/Langley Mill to Nottingham.

Peter

So would it be valid if I did Derby, Sheffield, Nottingham, Long Eaton, Derby ???

 

[yorkie]

So would it be valid if I did Derby, Sheffield, Nottingham, Long Eaton, Derby ???

I don't think that's quite compatible with what this says:

Nottingham and Beeston stations sell special Derbyshire Wayfarer tickets which also include rail travel from those stations to Long Eaton or Langley Mill. These tickets are priced at £14.80 (adult) and £7.40 (concessionary). Group tickets are not available from these stations.

However if you let the guard know what you were doing (before boarding or before going out of the Wayfarer area), you'd probably be okay, the worst they can say is "no" in which case await a later train, and ask the next guard. I don't think it's the intention to allow such a journey, but it seems reasonable to me, but what matters is if the guard agrees...

 

[John @ home]

The leaflet defines a child but not a senior citizen. The website is clear that for this purpose a senior citizen is anyone aged 60 or over.

Like yorkie I've never used the version valid from Nottingham, but I share collybs' concern that its additional validity may be for one return journey from Nottingham to Long Eaton or Langley Mill and therefore it may be unsuitable for you.

If I were intending to make this journey next week, I think I would phone Derbyshire County Council's (DCC) Public Transport Unit on 01629 536738 and ask them to confirm that the more expensive version is valid from Long Eaton to Langley Mill via Nottingham.

There may also be an issue over obtaining a Wayfarer valid from Nottingham. The website implies it may be sold at Nottingham and Beeston stations only. If DCC's answer to the first question is positive, I would ask them to send me the ticket(s) by post. Of course, Easter and royal wedding postal delays may make that impractical for travel next week.

 

[bb21]

Depending on what you need to do you might be able to use a slightly more expensive option. Are you getting to and from Derby on the bus? Do you have a Concessionary bus pass?

If the only journey you require is Derby - Sheffield - Nottingham - Derby, a day return between Derby and Sheffield is valid via Nottingham so you can do your round trip whichever way you like.

Derby – Sheffield
Off-Peak Day Return
Route Any Permitted
SNR £5.80

Admittedly this costs slightly more. However if all else fails then it is an option.

 

[taxidave]

Depending on what you need to do you might be able to use a slightly more expensive option. Are you getting to and from Derby on the bus? Do you have a Concessionary bus pass?

If the only journey you require is Derby - Sheffield - Nottingham - Derby, a day return between Derby and Sheffield is valid via Nottingham so you can do your round trip whichever way you like.

Derby – Sheffield
Off-Peak Day Return
Route Any Permitted
SNR £5.80

Admittedly this costs slightly more. However if all else fails then it is an option.

That looks good, thank you, I will probably do that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just bumping this back up to update you on my journey.
The XC guard on my Cheltenham to Derby train confirmed that the route was valid so I went to the booking office at Derby to purchase my ticket. I told the man what I intended to do and he said it was not valid and I would have to purchase a Derby to Nottingham ticket and then a Nottingham to Sheffield ticket. I informed him I had been assured the route was valid and I would take a chance and buy a Derby to Sheffield return and see who was right !!
The journey went perfectly ok with my ticket being checked at all stages of the journey.
On my return to Derby I went to the ticket office to complain that the man had tried to overcharge me for my journey and I met with the most surly impolite person I think I have ever met, he told me in no uncertain terms that I was talking a load of balls and that the guards didn't know what they were talking about, he virtually told me to eff off when I tried to explain that the journey was valid.
I picked up a complaint form, should I send it in and complain about the staffs lack of knowledgs and most certainly lack of courtesy.

 

[bb21]

I have done this journey so many times i've lost count. A letter to EMT is due i think. Many on here will be happy to proof-read it.

 

[Max]

Sadly this isn't a surprise to me. EMT's booking office staff have a notorious reputation, particularly those in Sheffield. They also seem to deny all knowledge of the routeing guide. :roll:

 

[yorkie]

Sadly this isn't a surprise to me. EMT's booking office staff have a notorious reputation, particularly those in Sheffield. They also seem to deny all knowledge of the routeing guide. :roll:

That's a Stagecoach thing. SWT and EMT both suffer from a lack of knowledge and even denial of existence, when it comes to the Routeing Guide.

There isn't a routeing guide for buses, and in the bus world operators can pretty much make up rules as they see fit (except where strict franchises prevent it), so I guess it must come to a shock to them that there are obligations they must adhere to as part of the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement. Well, tough, they knew what they were bidding for and they have to adhere to the conditions of the franchises.

I will be carrying out further 'mystery shopping' at Sheffield to ensure they are complying next month, and welcome anyone who wishes to join me.

 

[taxidave]

Below is a copy of an email I have sent to EMT, which I will probably follow up with a hard copy.

I wish to complain about the lack of knowledge and courtesy that I encountered at Derby station last Thursday 27th April,
Having previously checked the validity of my journey with the XC guard on my journey from Cheltenham to Derby and also on your own website, I decided to travel from Derby to Sheffield via Nottingham and then returning direct to Derby at a cost of £5.80 using my senior railcard. I informed your clerk at the booking office what I intended to do and he told me I would have to pay extra to go via Nottingham, I tried to assure him that the route was valid but he was adamant that I would have to pay extra. As I was convinced that I was right I went ahead and bought my £5.80 ticket and boarded a train to Nottingham. My ticket was checked by XC staff on my journey from Derby to Nottingham and also by your own staff on the train from Nottingham to Liverpool Lime Street which I used to get to Sheffield.
On my return to Derby I went to the booking office again to complain that a member of staff had tried to overcharge me for my journey and the person I spoke to also said that the route was not valid and that I had been very lucky to get away with it. I tried to point out to him that my ticket was perfectly valid but he then became very rude and virtually told me to go away.
I am in the fortunate position of being able to check the validity of a journey but I am sure there are many others who would have just paid the extra money and would then probably decide not to use your company in future because of the expense. I feel sure it would benefit your company if you took a little time to educate your staff, not only in giving correct information on fares, but more importantly, in dealing politely with customers.

 

[Wyvern]

Just a note here. I haven't read this thread in detail but one post links to Derbyshire County Council and their Gold Card for over-60s.

This gives half fare to Sheffield, Manchester, Burton, Mansfield so long as journeys start or finish in the county.

Some of the Wayfarer types on offer therefore may be based on this

However the half price rail fare Gold Card finishes in August (Derby booking office certainly knew about this ) I dont know about b-line

 

[yorkie]

Just a note here. I haven't read this thread in detail but one post links to Derbyshire County Council and their Gold Card for over-60s.

This gives half fare to Sheffield, Manchester, Burton, Mansfield so long as journeys start or finish in the county.

Some of the Wayfarer types on offer therefore may be based on this

However the half price rail fare Gold Card finishes in August (Derby booking office certainly knew about this ) I dont know about b-line

Both Derbyshire County Council and National Rail (ATOC) state that, for senior citizens (aged 60 or over) the rate is half-fare.

Therefore, there is no need for someone aged 60 or over to have one of these cards, and I decided not to complicate this thread with that detail.

In the event, the OP got a Derby to Sheffield CDR, not a Wayfarer.

 

[taxidave]

Just a note here. I haven't read this thread in detail but one post links to Derbyshire County Council and their Gold Card for over-60s.

If you had read the thread in detail you would have noticed that I had an off peak day return from Derby to Sheffield booked through EMT at Derby booking office and absolutely nothing to do with Derbyshire County Council. The thread did start out by me asking about a Derbyshire Wayfarer but ended by me deciding to just purchase an ordinary return ticket.
It does seem to be a trait on this forum that people quickly scan threads and so miss out a lot of salient points. This is the second thread that I have started in which people seem to have got confused, or perhaps it is just me not making my points very clear.

 

[yorkie]

It does seem to be a trait on this forum that people quickly scan threads and so miss out a lot of salient points. This is the second thread that I have started in which people seem to have got confused, or perhaps it is just me not making my points very clear.

Yes, I am sometimes tempted to delete such posts (and I am often encouraged to!), but it's sometimes better to correct/respond to them. A tough one to call. But, on this site, at least you can be reasonably confident that confusing and/or incorrect posts will be challenged, the same cannot be said of many other sites! (*cough* MSE *cough*!)

 

[Wyvern]

Perhaps I should have simply said that if anyone is basing their plans on the Derbyshire Gold Card the situation changes in August, which hasn't been well publicised. A worthwhile addendunm I would have thought.

 

[networkrail1]

I will be carrying out further 'mystery shopping' at Sheffield to ensure they are complying next month, and welcome anyone who wishes to join me.

I would be more than happy to tag along with you yorkie PM me if and when you are planning to go.

All the best.

Simon

 

[taxidave]

Alls well that ends well......below is a copy of an email I received from EMT today.

Dear David Andrews

Thank you for your email with details of your booking.

I am sorry that staff the station seemed unaware of the allowance to travel
via Nottingham, as this is a valid route. I will ensure that details of
your complaint are passed to the booking office, so staff can be re-briefed
on this and to ensure that this does not happen again (especially to other
passengers).

Thank you for taking the time to bring this matter to our attention.

Kind regards

XXXXXXXX XXXXX
Customer Relations Manager

 

[Max]

Just as a little aside, Derbyshire Wayfarers have just increased in price fairly substantially, so just be aware if you are planning only a few short trips (it may be cheaper to buy separate tickets):

http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/transp...rover_tickets/derbyshire_wayfarer/default.asp

 

[MichaelAMW]

Alls well that ends well......below is a copy of an email I received from EMT today.

Glad you received a sensible reply. As a regular user of both Beeston (where I live) and Nottingham (where I work and/or change trains), as well as EMT more widely, I have to say that the ex-Central Trains staff are generally more helpful and flexible than those from Midland Mainline. Certainly the "out to get you" mentality of some/a few revenue staff only seems to appear on the London services. I don't think any of them know much about the routeing guide, but at least the ex-CT staff seem to appreciate this and don't try to make it up. Neither place could manage to issue my Isle-of-Man ticket recently, although Beeston said he didn't know how but would try to find out while Nottingham said they didn't do them!

Not so long ago I boarded at Beeston, when the booking office was closed, to travel to Norwich and I had an Advance ticket for earlier in the day. I was late as I'd been feeling ill. I asked whether it would be an excess, i.e. are you prepared to take account of the 'value' of my (invalid, of course, by that point!) ticket or is it just an off-peak single? He actually just let me travel - "Well, this train isn't exactly packed, is it?!" It gives you hope...

 

[button_boxer]

Just as a little aside, Derbyshire Wayfarers have just increased in price fairly substantially, so just be aware if you are planning only a few short trips (it may be cheaper to buy separate tickets):

http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/transp...rover_tickets/derbyshire_wayfarer/default.asp

Ouch. Up from £8.90 to £10.50, an increase just shy of 18%! The DBY-SHF CDR which was previously £8.80 has also gone up but thankfully not by quite so much (up 9% to £9.60). So my all-day bus ticket for Derby is now 90p rather than 10p, but I suppose that's still pretty good value compared to an Arriva day ticket...

 

[Dreadnought]

Ouch. Up from £8.90 to £10.50, an increase just shy of 18%! The DBY-SHF CDR which was previously £8.80 has also gone up but thankfully not by quite so much (up 9% to £9.60). So my all-day bus ticket for Derby is now 90p rather than 10p, but I suppose that's still pretty good value compared to an Arriva day ticket...

How come the DBY-SHF fare have risen yet others such as LEI-DBY and LEI-SHF have not?

 

[button_boxer]

How come the DBY-SHF fare have risen yet others such as LEI-DBY and LEI-SHF have not?

I think it's more the case that the Derby to Sheffield CDR has been effectively capped by the wayfarer price. I'm sure it would have been much more expensive than £8.80 before if it weren't for the existence of the wayfarer.