Derby-Liverpool flexible fare, TrainSplit query

[Skymonster]

Hello everyone,

I have a little puzzle regarding TrainSplit and a trip I want to make in early September.

• Derby-Liverpool return
• Depart Derby after 06:30 on September 1st, 2025
• Depart Liverpool after 18:00 on September 4th, 2025
• Flexible ticket
• Senior railcard

See screenshot.

TrainSplit suggests out 06:42 Derby-Liverpool 09:04; return 18:12 Liverpool-Derby 20:22; change Crewe both ways - £43.57 return trip, split Kidsgrove
Trainsplit also suggests out 06:42 Derby-Liverpool 09:17; return 18:12 Liverpool-Derby 20:22; change Crewe both ways - £37.41 return trip, split Alsager and Crewe

The cheaper fare / slower journey is Offpeak Return Derby-Kidsgrove (restriction BT, valid anytime after 04:30), then Anytime Return Kidsgrove-Liverpool. The Kidsgrove-Liverpool ticket does not appear to be route restricted or TOC restricted (WMR, AWC). The more expensive fare / slightly faster journey splits Alsager and Crewe. Both alternatives involve the same EMR Derby-Crewe-Derby services and they call at Kidsgrove and Alsager both ways. Connection times at Crewe out are OK for both alternatives and its the same trains back.

So why is the cheaper fare and single split not offered to arrive Liverpool arriving 09:04? And equally to the point I know there's potential for an even shorter (but not legal) connection outbound in Crewe that would get me to Liverpool even earlier which I could use if things run to time, but with these weird fare variations I suspect I'm missing something about the Kidsgrove split being OK on almost anything - but what am I missing?

Thoughts appreciated...

 

[Haywain]

Trainsplit also suggests out 06:42 Derby-Liverpool 09:17; return 18:12 Liverpool-Derby 20:22; change Crewe both ways - £37.41 return trip, split Alsager and Crewe

When I try selecting this outward journey the 18:12 return disappears, so I suspect your answer lies in that.

 

[OscarH]

So why is the cheaper fare and single split not offered to arrive Liverpool arriving 09:04? And equally to the point I know there's potential for an even shorter (but not legal) connection outbound in Crewe that would get me to Liverpool even earlier which I could use if things run to time, but with these weird fare variations I suspect I'm missing something about the Kidsgrove split being OK on almost anything - but what am I missing?

You aren't missing anything, that split at Kidsgrove is entirely valid on the 09:04 arrival - you can see this by searching just Kidsgrove to Liverpool, the 07:43-09:04 lets you select the Anytime Return through fare.

The splitting algorithm isn't finding it - I have a theory why, but I've escalated to our supplier to investigate further.

 

[Skymonster]

When I try selecting this outward journey the 18:12 return disappears, so I suspect your answer lies in that.

Indeed it does - I’d noticed that too. But I can’t figure out why it isn’t shown in combination with both of the outbounds. The cheaper fare, split Kidsgrove, should work for it as far as I can tell, as should the slightly more expensive split Alsager and Crewe.

You aren't missing anything, that split at Kidsgrove is entirely valid on the 09:04 arrival - you can see this by searching just Kidsgrove to Liverpool, the 07:43-09:04 lets you select the Anytime Return through fare.

The splitting algorithm isn't finding it - I have a theory why, but I've escalated to our supplier to investigate further.

Thank you. I’m not particularly bothered about saving a few quid, but I do want flexibility and I was concerned that if I had missed something I might have bought tickets that didn’t give me the flexibility I’d hoped for.