Deployment of Northern's new units and Class 195/331 cascade

[Bletchleyite]

Definitely not the case in the North East. There’s the odd booked 4 car working, the vast majority however are 2 car.

South Yorkshire is nearly all two car, except for the 170s and 150/0s. Four cars only come out to play on Sundays.

To be fair I have a bit of a North West bias in my knowledge of Northern. Question is are there enough 2-car 195s to work those services that really must be 2-car, and how many of them might actually benefit from an upgrade to 3.195, i.e. are often overcrowded?

For one example I could see sense in Barrow-Carlisle becoming part of the North East operation alongside the Hadrian's Wall Line and the S&C, using a selection of 195s in both lengths as demand can vary. There's obviously the "tight bridge" issue on the Coast, but keeping a small fleet of 156s to run that really isn't tenable long term, so that bullet is going to have to be bitten, probably by singling the tight section.

North West have a few services that only really justify 2-car such as Ormskirk, but it might be simpler just to use the shorter new units on these rather than have an island of 195s?

 

[Mat17]

Sheffield to either Adwick/York/Cleethorpes would be fine with 2 car. Same goes for Doncaster to Scunthorpe.

The Penistone line outside of the peaks would be okay 2 car.

Everything else should be three car minimum... Nottingham/Lincoln/Scarborough for example.

 

[DanNCL]

To be fair I have a bit of a North West bias in my knowledge of Northern. Question is are there enough 2-car 195s to work those services that really must be 2-car, and how many of them might actually benefit from an upgrade to 3.195, i.e. are often overcrowded?

For one example I could see sense in Barrow-Carlisle becoming part of the North East operation alongside the Hadrian's Wall Line and the S&C, using a selection of 195s in both lengths as demand can vary. There's obviously the "tight bridge" issue on the Coast, but keeping a small fleet of 156s to run that really isn't tenable long term, so that bullet is going to have to be bitten, probably by singling the tight section.

North West have a few services that only really justify 2-car such as Ormskirk, but it might be simpler just to use the shorter new units on these rather than have an island of 195s?

Theres no reason why anything in the North East *must* be two car.

The Cumbrian Coast would be fine with 195s. But they’re not the solution for any of the lines in the North East.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Cumbrian Coast would be fine with 195s. But they’re not the solution for any of the lines in the North East.

195s would be absolutely fine on the Hadrian's Wall Line and the S&C (Yorkshire to be fair). Though I'd probably put 170s on the S&C and 195s on the York-Leeds local, as that's more effective use of resources in terms of not wasting diesel stirring transmission oil, and 170s have better window alignment and bigger windows for the views.

 

[DanNCL]

195s would be absolutely fine on the Hadrian's Wall Line and the S&C (Yorkshire to be fair). Though I'd probably put 170s on the S&C and 195s on the York-Leeds local, as that's more effective use of resources in terms of not wasting diesel stirring transmission oil, and 170s have better window alignment and bigger windows for the views.

Settle & Carlisle yes, Tyne Valley not really as that needs more than 2 car trains plus it has to interwork with the rest of the North East which isn’t suitable for 195s. It needs to be the new bi-modes at Heaton, which by default means bi-modes on the Tyne Valley. If the Cumbrian Coast is to use 195s they need to come from Newton Heath not Heaton.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Settle & Carlisle yes, Tyne Valley not really as that needs more than 2 car trains plus it has to interwork with the rest of the North East which isn’t suitable for 195s. It needs to be the new bi-modes at Heaton, which by default means bi-modes on the Tyne Valley. If the Cumbrian Coast is to use 195s they need to come from Newton Heath not Heaton.

In my (limited) experience almost all services on the Hadrian's Wall Line are 2-car 156s.

 

[DanNCL]

In my (limited) experience almost all services on the Hadrian's Wall Line are 2-car 156s.

Just because something is 2 car now doesn’t mean it should stay 2 car. The Tyne Valley is a busy line, especially at the Newcastle end, 2 car isn’t enough for the majority of services.