Demolition work at Carlton Road junction.

[AM9]

In passing Carlton Road Junction north of Kentish Town on Tuesday, I noticed that the north to west chord of the triangle (Carlton Road jct. to Mortimer St.) is closed to traffic. That is because there is demolition work over the tunnel Tottennham north curve (visible from the MML slows) where it seems that the actual brick tunnel construction is involved. Is this a railway scheme and will it give a rare opportunity to increase the clearance there as a precursor to electrifying the link from the GOBLin to the MML?

 

[Hairy Bear]

I think you'll find it's to stabilise the walls as there's huge cracks and bulging appeared.

 

[westcoaster]

I think you'll find it's to stabilise the walls as there's huge cracks and bulging appeared.

Been ongoing for over a year.

 

[pdeaves]

I think you'll find it's to stabilise the walls as there's huge cracks and bulging appeared.

Is that the place where the site behind overloaded the ground with piles of containers and things? Or was that somewhere else? - whilst typing, Liverpool comes to mind for some reason.

 

[DelW]

Is that the place where the site behind overloaded the ground with piles of containers and things? Or was that somewhere else? - whilst typing, Liverpool comes to mind for some reason.

That certainly happened a few years ago somewhere in the Edge Hill area on the approaches to Lime Street. There may have been other instances of course.

 

[pdeaves]

That certainly happened a few years ago somewhere in the Edge Hill area on the approaches to Lime Street. There may have been other instances of course.

That's probably what I was thinking of. Not Carlton Road area, then!

 

[AM9]

Been ongoing for over a year.

Shame that it soundss just like a return to 'as built'. An electrified link between the two might be quite useful, especially if the Government allows the Strategic Railfreight Interchange to be built, at least electric freight haulage would cause less disruption and less pollution (both particulate and noise) on the route.

 

[zwk500]

Shame that it soundss just like a return to 'as built'. An electrified link between the two might be quite useful, especially if the Government allows the Strategic Railfreight Interchange to be built, at least electric freight haulage would cause less disruption and less pollution (both particulate and noise) on the route.

Would be good if they try and increase clearances, but electrified freight over the MML is still some way off, as the lower end isn't container cleared. There are a few stone flows to Radlett and Cricklewood from nearby ports that might go over if the terminals were electrified, but the more likely answer to short stretches like this is to use last-mile batteries. It will be incredibly interesting to see how GBRf and DRS deploy their multi-mode locos.

 

[Bald Rick]

Part of the tunnel portal ‘failed’ about a year ago, and this is part of the work to permanently fix it. (There was a temporary fix back when it happened).

Clearance of that route is very tricky, and not only because of that tunnel. One of the other tunnels has things underneath the track that can’t be easily shifted, and stuff on top that can’t easily be moved either.

Very few trains would use it electrically hauled, even if the MML was wired to Sheffield / Nottingham. A few stone trains ex Mountsorrel perhaps.

The Radlett terminal is a red herring; even if it gets built it’s very, very unlikely to ever see a train.

 

[AM9]

Part of the tunnel portal ‘failed’ about a year ago, and this is part of the work to permanently fix it. (There was a temporary fix back when it happened).

Clearance of that route is very tricky, and not only because of that tunnel. One of the other tunnels has things underneath the track that can’t be easily shifted, and stuff on top that can’t easily be moved either.

Very few trains would use it electrically hauled, even if the MML was wired to Sheffield / Nottingham. A few stone trains ex Mountsorrel perhaps.

The Radlett terminal is a red herring; even if it gets built it’s very, very unlikely to ever see a train.

I know, it will be depressing seeing trainloads of freight on the A414.

 

[Bald Rick]

I know, it will be depressing seeing trainloads of freight on the A414.

Well, yes, but it would also be depressing waiting on the slow lines at Napsbury or Radlett whilst 600 metres of what would be (probably) empty container flats crawls out of the site, up a steep gradient, and onto the slow lines. The site is too near the main ports to be viable for any significant flows by rail.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Well, yes, but it would also be depressing waiting on the slow lines at Napsbury or Radlett whilst 600 metres of what would be (probably) empty container flats crawls out of the site, up a steep gradient, and onto the slow lines. The site is too near the main ports to be viable for any significant flows by rail.

Can you explain the logic of that last bit. Thanks.

 

[AM9]

Can you explain the logic of that last bit. Thanks.

I would imagine that to take a full train from Thames Gateway or even Felixstowe to Radlett would be too short a journey to benefit from rail haulage. There has been pressure to locate the depot further up the MML at Sundon, where there is little opposition for it and even encouragement from the local authority. That would potentially avoid dumping thousands of tonnes of freight on local roads that feed the M1, M25 and A1M, 8, 6 & 11 miles away respectively.

 

[bramling]

I would imagine that to take a full train from Thames Gateway or even Felixstowe to Radlett would be too short a journey to benefit from rail haulage. There has been pressure to locate the depot further up the MML at Sundon, where there is little opposition for it and even encouragement from the local authority. That would potentially avoid dumping thousands of tonnes of freight on local roads that feed the M1, M25 and A1M, 8, 6 & 11 miles away respectively.

I was going to say that the local roads could well do without extra HGV traffic. All three motorways essentially run close to or above capacity for substantial amounts of the day.

 

[Bald Rick]

Can you explain the logic of that last bit. Thanks.

Radlett is around 2 hours by wagon From Felixstowe or Southampton, and little more than an hour from London Gateway. By train it’s rather longer for each. Then there is the time required to load unload a full train of boxes heading for the same destination. Simply put, by the time a train full for Radlett is ready to go, a road haulier could have taken a box, returned, and be ready to take another one. Time is money in the container business, and in most cases it is going to be cheaper to send by road. Container flows typically need longer runs - 150 miles or so, although there are some edge cases.

What also doesn’t help Radlett (or Sundon) is the need for low loading wagons. These further reduce the efficiency of a train.

Incidentally, these aren’t just my views, but those of two people I know who run logistics businesses (one general distribution, one a container company).

 

[Class 170101]

Radlett is around 2 hours by wagon From Felixstowe or Southampton, and little more than an hour from London Gateway. By train it’s rather longer for each. Then there is the time required to load unload a full train of boxes heading for the same destination. Simply put, by the time a train full for Radlett is ready to go, a road haulier could have taken a box, returned, and be ready to take another one. Time is money in the container business, and in most cases it is going to be cheaper to send by road. Container flows typically need longer runs - 150 miles or so, although there are some edge cases.

What also doesn’t help Radlett (or Sundon) is the need for low loading wagons. These further reduce the efficiency of a train.

Incidentally, these aren’t just my views, but those of two people I know who run logistics businesses (one general distribution, one a container company).

But that depends if you can get a lorry driver. Isn't there a flow from Liverpool to Birmingham thats appeared because of a lack of Lorry drivers? Same from Immingham to Doncaster?

 

[Bald Rick]

But that depends if you can get a lorry driver.

Plenty of them around now.

Isn't there a flow from Liverpool to Birmingham thats appeared because of a lack of Lorry drivers? Same from Immingham to Doncaster?

briefly, yes. They don’t often run now. And they were once a day jobs.