Demand Responsive Transport

[Dai Corner]

I don't know much about "fflecsi" - does it offer advance booking (so it's useful for timed stuff like work and appointments)? The absence of that is the main flaw in MK's new system.

There's no advance booking for the urban service in Newport. I've made the same point as you when giving feedback to TfW. Ironically, Newport Transport have run pre-book only DRT services in the more rural parts of the City for a number of years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's no advance booking for the urban service in Newport. I've made the same point as you when giving feedback to TfW. Ironically, Newport Transport have run pre-book only DRT services in the more rural parts of the City for a number of years.

I still need to get round to writing it up, but I think a mixed model works best - some trips are totally flexible (e.g. "I want to go to Tesco this afternoon at some point") but most aren't, and are mostly keyed around departure and arrival times *at the destination*. The model I have in mind that would work for this sort of context is that you fix the destinations and arrival times*, and then vary the pickups/drop-offs to fit.

* Simplified example: you have, off peak, 4 vehicles based at MKC station which will arrive there at xx55 and depart there at xx05, allowing for each run to take 50 minutes, but those 50 minutes could be spent anywhere within a given zone per vehicle - e.g. one north west, one north east etc. But the key is that you know you'll arrive at (or very close to) xx55, and as such can plan for a given train. But if you get to xx05 and there's no booking for a given vehicle, you could "fill in" with an ad-hoc journey taking Old Mrs. Jones to Old Mrs. Smith, house to house, for a cup of tea - a totally time-flexible journey.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I'm sure that Skyline/Speedline etc in MK will be looking forward to DRT

 

[edwin_m]

Meanwhile, from Boris's big bus announcement: Prime Minister launches £3 billion bus revolution - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

London-style services aren’t appropriate for all rural and suburban areas, which is why the Department for Transport is today also announcing the recipients of the £20 million from the government’s rural mobility fund, which enables on-demand services – such as minibuses booked via an app – to be trialled in areas where a traditional bus service isn’t appropriate.

From the link in the quote - areas in need of levelling up somewhat lacking I think:

1	Buckinghamshire Council (Aylesbury)	£ 1,114,000
2	Buckinghamshire Council (High Wycombe)	£ 736,000
3	Cheshire East Council	£ 1,260,000
4	Cheshire West and Chester Council	£ 1,075,000
5	Cumbria County Council	£ 1,500,000
6	Essex County Council (Central Essex)	£ 1,493,000
7	Essex County Council (South Braintree)	£ 1,082,000
8	Gloucestershire County Council	£ 1,352,000
9	Hertfordshire County Council (North East)	£ 1,472,000
10	Leicestershire County Council	£ 1,300,000
11	Norfolk County Council	£ 700,000
12	North Lincolnshire Council	£ 912,232
13	Nottinghamshire County Council	£ 1,497,000
14	Staffordshire County Council	£ 1,038,091
15	Surrey County Council	£ 660,200
16	Warwickshire County Council	£ 1,020,000
17	Wiltshire Council	£ 1,200,000

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure that Skyline/Speedline etc in MK will be looking forward to DRT

Which to be fair the Council is probably fine with, because that means no subsidy...

I suspect a load of private "scheduled bus services" using taxis will end up being arranged by individuals...

 

[gordonthemoron]

Which to be fair the Council is probably fine with, because that means no subsidy...

I suspect a load of private "scheduled bus services" using taxis will end up being arranged by individuals...

The missus works at Makita, and the warehouse staff have being doing that for years

 

[TheManOnThe172]

I have been depressed by the lack of any sceptical coverage of today's announcement by government, encouraging a move to Rural DRT. Everyone speaking or quoted in the national media seems happy that it is an unquestionably Good Thing.

To try and redress the balance, I have developed a set of questions that I think need asking when a DRT scheme is proposed. Suggestions for enhancement would be much appreciated.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's a good little site highlighting soandme of the problems. In particular I'd say that "many to many DRT", which is what the Milton Keynes example is, is basically unworkable for most journeys because there is no certainty of journey time or even being carried at all until the point you're at the door with your shoes and coat on.

"Many to one DRT"* might well work here, by having particular destinations which have vehicles dedicated to them with fixed arrival/departure times for each run at that end, e.g. Westcroft shopping centre, Bletchley station, MKC station etc. Another example - have a bus based at Westcroft which will, once an hour, head out dropping off and picking up via a dynamic route to arrive back for a layover, then out again. I think this would work very well.

I think the key is that some human planning is needed to build in some consistency. Having the computer manage it all dynamically, which is what I believe the VIA system does, may make most efficient use of vehicles, but it won't offer the certainty of timing that people need for the vast majority of journeys, including almost all non-leisure journeys which are typically based around fixed and non-negotiable arrival times, e.g. at work or at a hospital appointment.

Another thing that may be worthy of consideration to improve usage of vehicles - and already offered by Uber Eats and some other couriers - is offering a cheaper price if your journey fits with where a bus will already be - i.e. if you can be time flexible you pay less. DPD I think sell it as the "green" option, as another bonus. But to amass the data you need for that, you need to offer advance booking. You could also set up some "transit centres" in estates - in MK for example the local centres - and make it say 20p cheaper if you go to/from one of those rather than home, again giving more consolidation and so making better use of buses.

* One doesn't need to be literally one. It might be better put as "many to fixed route" - for example, you could have a vehicle that will go from anywhere in West MK to run the CMK "spine" of the station to Xscape, dropping off and picking up along the way, then heading back out on an on-demand run around West MK again.

 

[gordonthemoron]

@Bletchleyite New MK Bus Timetables

They finish rather early

 

[carlberry]

I have been depressed by the lack of any sceptical coverage of today's announcement by government, encouraging a move to Rural DRT. Everyone speaking or quoted in the national media seems happy that it is an unquestionably Good Thing.

To try and redress the balance, I have developed a set of questions that I think need asking when a DRT scheme is proposed. Suggestions for enhancement would be much appreciated.

It's unusual for anybody within the media to even understand what a bus is, let alone how to question the PR being put out by the government about them. By the time the actual detail is actually announced it'll be too late to point out that it's been tried before numerous times and it only works if you throw money at it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

@Bletchleyite New MK Bus Timetables

They finish rather early

The Arriva services, yes, because all subsidy has been withdrawn from fixed-route services, so Arriva are now only operating what they can do commercially. A good many of the evening services were subsidised.

Surprised by the cut from 6 to 4bph on the West Bletchley end of the 4 as that was a commercial daytime service, but equally it serving the railway station is a very useful improvement. I guess they must have got a considerable number of extra passengers when it was serving there due to the EWR work closing the bridge to central Bletchley.

 

[TR673]

I don't remember seeing any reference to it over the past five pages, but this video (by Geoff Marshall) outlines the operation of the Go Coach Sevenoaks DRT from the perspective of a passenger and it seemed to work decently.

All the pick-up and drop off points are existing bus stops and buses can be 'called' by either app or phone, which may be a better system than app-only and door-to-door (like a taxi). The use of proper buses makes it appear more like a service for anyone than if it was using, say, Mercedes Vitos or Peugeot Experts, which give off a welfare transport feel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah, I do think having designated stops for them rather than door to door does make a difference - also stops people expecting them to stop in dangerous places, e.g. people will naturally wait at road junctions. If the stops are signed and numbered, it's also clear that if you've been told to wait at stop A123 if you're at the right one.

As I mentioned above I think it might also be worth offering very slight discounts (10 or 20p, not a huge sum) for joining/alighting at a potentially very centralised location e.g. a local parade of shops - this would maximise efficiency.

Does that system allow pre-booking to ensure a specific time of journey?

 

[Man of Kent]

All the pick-up and drop off points are existing bus stops and buses can be 'called' by either app or phone, which may be a better system than app-only and door-to-door (like a taxi). The use of proper buses makes it appear more like a service for anyone than if it was using, say, Mercedes Vitos or Peugeot Experts, which give off a welfare transport feel.

Does that system allow pre-booking to ensure a specific time of journey

Go uses Via technology, just like many of the other DRT examples referred to. It is NOT exclusive to existing bus stops. Via's system uses points described as virtual bus stops, which is why it is sometimes described not as "door to door" but "corner to corner". I'm not sure if pre-booking is possible, Via's system can be manipulated to permit or deny it, and I've yet to sample this one personally.

When Geoff visited, the special restricted licence had not yet been issued, and buses were in use in place of the Mercedes Vitos which are now the primary vehicles, backed up occasionally by an Optare Solo. There's a picture of a Vito on the website homepage, Go Taxi Hire Limted – Shared Journey Solutions in Sevenoaks (go2now.co.uk) - note the blind display on the Solo behind.

This scheme is subsidised by Kent County Council and accepts ENCTS passholders for free, for journeys of up to 8 miles.

 

[GusB]

I don't remember seeing any reference to it over the past five pages, but this video (by Geoff Marshall) outlines the operation of the Go Coach Sevenoaks DRT from the perspective of a passenger and it seemed to work decently.

All the pick-up and drop off points are existing bus stops and buses can be 'called' by either app or phone, which may be a better system than app-only and door-to-door (like a taxi). The use of proper buses makes it appear more like a service for anyone than if it was using, say, Mercedes Vitos or Peugeot Experts, which give off a welfare transport feel.

We did have a separate thread dedicated to the Go Coach operation. It's closed for further replies, but you may find it useful:

Geoff Marshall review of Go-Coach's Demand Responsive Transport (DRT) in Sevenoaks

I think this is a extremely good idea, and could replace many awful and costly council tender routes, surely must be a lot cheaper to run this type of service with what people want, then than operating empty. * Video: There are several 'DRT' bus schemes running in the country - that's where...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[cnjb8]

Go uses Via technology, just like many of the other DRT examples referred to. It is NOT exclusive to existing bus stops. Via's system uses points described as virtual bus stops, which is why it is sometimes described not as "door to door" but "corner to corner". I'm not sure if pre-booking is possible, Via's system can be manipulated to permit or deny it, and I've yet to sample this one personally.

When Geoff visited, the special restricted licence had not yet been issued, and buses were in use in place of the Mercedes Vitos which are now the primary vehicles, backed up occasionally by an Optare Solo. There's a picture of a Vito on the website homepage, Go Taxi Hire Limted – Shared Journey Solutions in Sevenoaks (go2now.co.uk) - note the blind display on the Solo behind.

This scheme is subsidised by Kent County Council and accepts ENCTS passholders for free, for journeys of up to 8 miles.

When the service started, they bought four new Ford Transits

 

[Llandudno]

When the service started, they bought four new Ford Transits

Ford Transits - sure fire way to get car drivers to convert to public transport!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ford Transits - sure fire way to get car drivers to convert to public transport!

To be fair we aren't talking 1980s breadvan minibuses. Whether they are attractive or not depends on how nice the interior is. A medium wheelbase Transit with aircon and 8 individual, quality leather coach seats in the back might well be quite attractive.

 

[Llandudno]

To be fair we aren't talking 1980s breadvan minibuses. Whether they are attractive or not depends on how nice the interior is. A medium wheelbase Transit with aircon and 8 individual, quality leather coach seats in the back might well be quite attractive.

Fair enough, I can recall the dreadful late 1980s Crosville models used on commercial services!

 

[Man of Kent]

When the service started, they bought four new Ford Transits

My mistake, they are indeed Ford Transit Tourneos, not Vitos. That large Ford logo on the front of the one on the web page should have been a bit of a clue...

 

[GusB]

West Coast Motors have jumped on the bandwagon.

West Coast Motors to launch Pingo DRT in Dunoon - CBW

West Coast Motors has announced the launch of its new Pingo app, due within the next few weeks, which will allow customers to book a shared journey not served by bus at a time that [...]

cbwmagazine.com

West Coast Motors has announced the launch of its new Pingo app, due within the next few weeks, which will allow customers to book a shared journey not served by bus at a time that suits their needs. The service will cover the Dunoon and Cowal peninsula area, west of Glasgow on the Upper Firth of Clyde, and act like an on-demand service.

“We realise that our customers need flexible, convenient travel and that timetables don’t always suit your needs. Pingo will take you from A to B by the quickest route possible at a time that suits you,” the operator said. The official launch date has yet to be confirmed, with the operator advising passengers to keep an eye on its website and social media channels for more information.

With a flat fare of £2, Pingo will take the quickest route to passengers’ destinations within the West Coast Motors Dunoon and Cowal network. Those without access to a smartphone can still book the service by phone via the Pingo helpdesk.

West Coast Motors said it will be using a new, luxury, 16-seater minibus on the service, which it plans to have on display locally over the next few weeks to promote the service and the app.

 

[Jordan Adam]

West Coast Motors have jumped on the bandwagon.

West Coast Motors to launch Pingo DRT in Dunoon - CBW

West Coast Motors has announced the launch of its new Pingo app, due within the next few weeks, which will allow customers to book a shared journey not served by bus at a time that [...]

cbwmagazine.com

Must say, i've been very impressed with WCM over the last few years, they seem to be ahead of the curve, especially compared to most other Scottish operators.

 

[Dai Corner]

It looks like Newport in south Wales is having more DRT ('Fflecsi') services. Presumably 'directly awarded to Newport Transport, the city Council owned operator.

View notice - Sell2Wales

Title:	Directly awarded Fflecsi bus services in Newport
Published by:	Welsh Government
Publication Date:	26/01/2021
Deadline Date:
Deadline Time:
Notice Type:	01 Prior Information Notice (PIN)
Has Documents:	No
Has ESPD:	No
Abstract:	Bus service contract to implement a demand responsive bus transport scheme (“Fflecsi Services”) in Newport, Wales where conventional local bus services have been reduced and traditional demand patterns have been disrupted as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. In May 2020, the Fflecsi Scheme pilot was launched in the Rogerstone, Ridgeway and St Julian areas of Newport. The early stages of the pilot were determined a success with patronage on the Fflecsi Services having grown above those of traditional bus services during the same time period. Based on the success of the first stage of the Fflecsi Scheme, a second stage of the trial will expand the pilot to other parts of the Newport urban area to further determine the role of Fflecsi as part of the public transport mix in Wales . A direct award of a bus service contract is now envisaged to facilitate the successful integration of the second stage of the Fflecsi Scheme. CPV: 60000000, 60100000, 60112000.

 

[ATW158Xpress]

It looks like Newport in south Wales is having more DRT ('Fflecsi') services. Presumably 'directly awarded to Newport Transport, the city Council owned operator.

View notice - Sell2Wales

I can see 2 routes switching to fflecsi operation and my guesses are:

20 Newport - Spytty Retail Park
40 Pillgwenlly

 

[TheManOnThe172]

North Yorkshire County Council (NYCC) has announced a "pilot" Demand Responsive Transport (DRT) service in the Ripon/Bedale/Masham area, using the Via app. But I don't think they are being straight with their residents.

NYCC are presenting this "cool" new Yorbus service as an added extra: "YorBus will complement and extend the existing public transport network in the region". And in that mode, there is a good chance that the user experience will be good - a manageable level of demand (because the scheduled buses will continue), despite temptingly low fares, and so a reasonably good chance that users get to make the journey that they enter into the app. And if they find DRT too unpredictable, they are no much worse off: they can go back to using the timetabled services.

But are NYCC really proposing to spend more on rural public transport? Every year? Isn't it more likely that this "pilot" is (after an initial honeymoon) is actually intended as a replacement for some of their existing services?

And at that point, the number of people turning to DRT will increase, and the consequences of not scoring a ride (because the "app says no" when you ask) will get more serious as there may not be a viable scheduled-bus alternative.

As I understand it the Via model does not support booking more than an hour or two ahead - rather like Uber, it handles requests as they come in, taking into account the location of vehicles and their existing commitments. That simply doesn't work in a rural area for people who need to be sure that they can travel, and at a particular time. How can you book an outpatient appointment if you won't find out whether you can get a ride until an hour ahead? What if your booking to get home from work is rejected because there are so many other rides already committed that the service is full for the rest of the evening?

Wake up, people of North Yorkshire!

 

[Taunton]

Anyone who has tried to get a taxi in an unfamiliar town at 8.30am to get from their hotel to a business meeting will likely be familiar with the "they are all out on school contracts try again at 9.30" issue.

It's not apparent to me why taxi provision is entirely free market, and more than breaks even for the operator, while DRT is invariably grossly subsidised from public funds for the same sort of operation with normally the same sort of vehicle loads.

 

[Dai Corner]

Anyone who has tried to get a taxi in an unfamiliar town at 8.30am to get from their hotel to a business meeting will likely be familiar with the "they are all out on school contracts try again at 9.30" issue.

It's not apparent to me why taxi provision is entirely free market, and more than breaks even for the operator, while DRT is invariably grossly subsidised from public funds for the same sort of operation with normally the same sort of vehicle loads.

Well, here in Newport the bus fare (DRT or timetabled) is £2 and the taxi fare to the suburbs is about £8. Many bus passengers have concessionary passes and pay nothing, of course. Then consider the difference between the operating costs of a car and a bus.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Further update - the Milton Keynes scheme is useless, only once has a bus been available quicker than walking, and in about 70% of cases nothing has been offered at all.

 

[Taunton]

Of course, the greatest example of convenient demand-responsive transport is ... the private car. Which is why it has swept the board worldwide.

 

[GusB]

Aberdeenshire Council are introducing a new demand responsive service in the Inverurie area.

Ready2Go ready to go in Aberdeenshire - CBW

A new DRT service will hit the roads of Inverurie in mid-August, replacing some normal bus services in the area Aberdeenshire Council is preparing to launch its new demand responsive transport pilot scheme in the [...]

cbwmagazine.com

A new DRT service will hit the roads of Inverurie in mid-August, replacing some normal bus services in the area

Aberdeenshire Council is preparing to launch its new demand responsive transport pilot scheme in the Inverurie area, where it will replace traditional fixed-route timetabled services. Aberdeenshire Council says that the new Ready2Go Around Inverurie service, which will begin operating on Monday 16 August, will provide better access to public transport and connect to main transport hubs in the area including Inverurie, Insch and Kintore railway stations.

Ready2Go Around Inverurie will operate from Monday to Friday between 0630 and 1930hrs and on Saturdays from 0730 to 1830hrs.

Unlike the council’s existing A2B dial-a-bus services, customers will be able to book at any time using the Ready2Go DRT app, available to download from the Apple Store or Google Play Store. Passengers can request a bus at short notice or ask for a future departure or arrival time. If they want to travel as soon as possible, they will be provided with a pick-up time and location or if booking ahead will receive an acknowledgement, with the predicted pick-up time and location confirmed closer to the time of travel.

The app will enable passengers to plan their journeys and track their Ready2Go bus on a map in real-time before it arrives, and the system will also provide the times of any other alternative bus services operating in the area, the Council said.

Ready2Go also incorporates accessibility features, helping people with disabilities to use public transport with more assurance. It has been created in partnership with MaaS (mobility as a service) provider moovit.com.

Passengers without a smartphone who are unable to use the app can phone the council to make a booking, and bookings can be made by the individual who is travelling or on behalf of someone else. Passengers who are travelling with others can book for everyone at the same time.
Cllr Peter Argyle, Chair of Aberdeenshire Council’s Infrastructure Services Committee, said: “Since the Covid-19 emergency, travel needs and travel demands have evolved with a massive increase in people working from home, a surge in online shopping and the development of tele-healthcare. Peak workers’ travel requirements – which formed the previous service delivery priority – have diminished significantly and currently all travel demand by bus remains suppressed and generally more local.