Delays to Stadler units/locos

[RichardAsh1981]

I have no knowledge of Class 93 particular locos, but as a regular Merseyrail 777 passenger (also built by Stadler) I have to wonder if slow testing is a sign that the results of the tests are not all that was hoped for?

Some very confidential negotiations about what changes would then be ongoing.

As the Merseyrail introduction seems to have been rushed for external reasons (and now we have serious availability issues), this is perhaps not a bad thing.

 

[Northerngirl]

I have no knowledge of these particular locos, but as a regular Merseyrail 777 passenger (also built by Stadler) I have to wonder if slow testing is a sign that the results of the tests are not all that was hoped for? Some very confidential negotiations about what changes would then be ongoing. As the Merseyrail introduction seems to have been rushed for external reasons (and now we have serious availability issues), this is perhaps not a bad thing.

The 777s were hardly rushed, they are just terribly biult and have reduculus issues at every turn, seemingly the same with every other stadler train in this country.

 

[800001]

The 777s were hardly rushed, they are just terribly biult and have reduculus issues at every turn, seemingly the same with every other stadler train in this country.

What’s the issues with the 745/755/231s?

 

[themiller]

The 777s were hardly rushed, they are just terribly biult and have reduculus issues at every turn, seemingly the same with every other stadler train in this country.

This is what you get as a first off customer ordering bespoke stock. If there’d been the opportunity to order a standard product from an established production line, things would have been different. Stadler will build to order but it must be recognised that there will most likely be more teething troubles the more changes you demand from their standard product where the niggles have already been ironed out.

 

[Northerngirl]

What’s the issues with the 745/755/231s?

The GA ones admittedly seem to have settled down but the TFW variants are very late and only a few a day seem to run. The Glasgow subway sets were ridiculous late & uncomfortable, the 555s are still yet do do anything. That can't all be the fault of the opperators

 

[Peter Sarf]

The 777s were hardly rushed, they are just terribly biult and have reduculus issues at every turn, seemingly the same with every other stadler train in this country.

The 777s suffered from changes to the design and as Stadler offer that capability there is always the risk the changes encounter problems not affecting the standard design.

The GA ones admittedly seem to have settled down but the TFW variants are very late and only a few a day seem to run. The Glasgow subway sets were ridiculous late & uncomfortable, the 555s are still yet do do anything. That can't all be the fault of the opperators

The problem in South Wales with the Stadler 756s is the lack of completed overhead electrification to use them on !.

The South Wales 231s are working just fine but not on the routes they were intended for - the 231 are instead covering routes where electrification is not yet completed.

The Greater Anglia 745s and 755s are doing OK. Biggest problem is that there were not enough 745s ordered !.

Generally the risk with small bespoke fleets is always there whatever the manufacturer.

The real disaster is the utter mess the Bombardier Aventras are in - large fleets coupled wit some late alterations in the case of the 701s.

It is no good comparing modern products to new fleets from twenty or more years ago. These days things are arguably over complicated.

So Stadler 93s are a modern bespoke design. I am glad the supplier and customer (ROG) appear to be realistic about testing and tweaking. The Stadler 93s are not a mass produced product like a car. I expect they are waiting to see what the 93s strong points are and then see what freight market the operator ROG can use them on. That market has changed. The 93s might suffer from the existence of the also new class 99.

 

[D365]

The Greater Anglia 745s and 755s are doing OK. Biggest problem is that there were not enough 745s ordered !.

Not enough 745s but too many 720s..?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Not enough 745s but too many 720s..?

Yes, now that we are into the last 720s finally arriving there could about be 20 of them spare !.

Some of the excuse is changes to plans - Covid reducing the need for so many 720s and the GEML not being speeded up means not enough 745s (just).
I suspect changing plans might also affect the 93s - ROGs relevant customers choosing another FOC and the 99s appearing on the scene.

 

[AdamWW]

The 777s were hardly rushed, they are just terribly biult and have reduculus issues at every turn, seemingly the same with every other stadler train in this country.

The GA ones admittedly seem to have settled down but the TFW variants are very late and only a few a day seem to run. The Glasgow subway sets were ridiculous late & uncomfortable, the 555s are still yet do do anything. That can't all be the fault of the opperators

I'm not aware of the 231s or 756s being beset by multiple technical issues. Certainly despite many daily services with 231s along with driver training runs on 756s they don't seem to be causing embarassment by failing and blocking lines. And if they are terribly built it doesn't show to me as a passenger. The staff I've talked to have seemed to like them too.
I suspect that the limit on 756 services at the moment is the need to have sufficient trained staff. not the fact that most of the fleet is inoperable.

The problem in South Wales with the Stadler 756s is the lack of completed overhead electrification to use them on !.

That's certainly why they aren't on the lines they were ordered for. But presumably they could be running more 756s now on the routes through Pontypridd if they had more staff trained. (Assuming that the lines can be put in operation again post flood).

 

[Peter Sarf]

I'm not aware of the 231s or 756s being beset by multiple technical issues. Certainly despite many daily services with 231s along with driver training runs on 756s they don't seem to be causing embarassment by failing and blocking lines. And if they are terribly built it doesn't show to me as a passenger. The staff I've talked to have seemed to like them too.
I suspect that the limit on 756 services at the moment is the need to have sufficient trained staff. not the fact that most of the fleet is inoperable.



That's certainly why they aren't on the lines they were ordered for. But presumably they could be running more 756s now on the routes through Pontypridd if they had more staff trained. (Assuming that the lines can be put in operation again post flood).

There is recently just enough electrification live and the 756s have started appearing on services through Pontypridd.
My impression from the dedicated 231/756 thread is that those uses are being ramped up as staff become available.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Yes, now that we are into the last 720s finally arriving there could about be 20 of them spare !.

Some of the excuse is changes to plans - Covid reducing the need for so many 720s and the GEML not being speeded up means not enough 745s (just).
I suspect changing plans might also affect the 93s - ROGs relevant customers choosing another FOC and the 99s appearing on the scene.

That's the excuse but I suspect COVID saved GA from embarrassment on the 745s tbh where the 720s would have had to cover and become a common sight in Norwich as the GEML was never going to magically get speeded up.

Back on subject though, I'm not sure stadler are any worse/better than any other manufacturer.. look at how late the 720s were.

 

[childwallblues]

I have no knowledge of Class 93 particular locos, but as a regular Merseyrail 777 passenger (also built by Stadler) I have to wonder if slow testing is a sign that the results of the tests are not all that was hoped for?

Some very confidential negotiations about what changes would then be ongoing.

As the Merseyrail introduction seems to have been rushed for external reasons (and now we have serious availability issues), this is perhaps not a bad thing.

Due to a dispute between management and unions over staffing of 777s a lot of the units sat in sidings in Switzerland and Poland and at Crewe for a number of years. This cannot have done the units much good. In fact one, 777035 has yet to enter service due to problems that occurred prior to its arrival in the UK.
You criticise Stadler built units and in particular the 777s but they seem a dream compared to the CAF built 197s based only 20 miles away in Chester which are suffering so many problems at present.

 

[Prime586]

Due to a dispute between management and unions over staffing of 777s a lot of the units sat in sidings in Switzerland and Poland and at Crewe for a number of years. This cannot have done the units much good. In fact one, 777035 has yet to enter service due to problems that occurred prior to its arrival in the UK.

777035 was the final unit delivered, and was dragged with the brakes locked on during the move between Dollands Moor and Ashford. It's current problems started after it had exited the UK end of the channel tunnel.

I also don't buy the excuse about the issues with the PIS, doors, third rail shoes etc. being due to them being 'bespoke', or the late changes to add the train manager dispatch system to the door button units. Every Stadler unit is 'bespoke' - if you read the marketing bumf on their website, tailoring trains to a customer's exact specs is supposed to be one of the advantages they offer.

Components like the door and step systems and the door buttons/dispatch card reader terminal are all bought-in from other manufacturers, so in those instances Stadler is only acting as a systems integrator, and it's the software that ties it all together (and the PIS software) that seems to be their achilles heel (I still marvel at how they managed to end up with incompatible software builds between the Swiss and Polish assembly plants).