Delayed trains refund

[crispy1978]

Got two tickets - Ayr-York and York-Scarborough.

Was affected by the Alnmouth incident yesterday, so was 55 minutes late in to York, and as thus missed my YRK-SCA connection (which made me an hour late).

I understand I can reclaim 50% of the AYR-YRK section (and have the EC form), but do I have any rights on the YRK-SCA section?

 

[yorkie]

You made the journey, so you are not eligible for a refund.

However you are eligible for compensation under East Coast's Delay Repay scheme. In my opinion you can claim on the journey you made. What time was your train booked into Scarborough and what time did you actually arrive?

 

[leyscjd]

I agree with Yorkie but it's unpredictable how East Coast will respond. Two recent examples of EC claims I made with split tickets brought about two different responses.

The first awarded me compensation based on the combined cost of the splits at the first attempt but the second based it only on the delayed part of the split. Having written back to them quoting NRCOC point 19 (which states 2 or more tickets can be used for one journey), they said point 19 does not apply to compensation but still paid up the shortfall 'as a gesture of goodwill'

However in a similar case I had with First Capital Connect, they didn't budge and even Passenger Focus decided in their favour.

 

[crispy1978]

My arrival in Scarborough was 20:29, and I should have arrived 1929 (but that train actually arrived at 19:34)

Times as per realtimetrains.co.uk

So, would you send both sets of tickets to EC? Do I need 1 form or 2 forms?

 

[leyscjd]

You were one hour late at your destination due to your EC delay so send all tickets to them & you are due 100% of the cost of the tickets in compensation if they were singles.

But as I said, it's a lottery as to whether you'll be compensated for the York-Scarborough bit. Persevere & EC will probably end up making the right decision.

 

[yorkie]

My arrival in Scarborough was 20:29, and I should have arrived 1929

Hmm so bang on 1 hour. They may well try to weasel out of it!

So, would you send both sets of tickets to EC? Do I need 1 form or 2 forms?

There was one journey delayed, so one form. Compensation is payable to that journey, so send the complete set of tickets for that one journey.

And prepare for battle!

 

[crispy1978]

Does it make a difference if it was a friend who booked the tickets - we were travelling as a group and he booked all the tickets so we were all together.

 

[maniacmartin]

Does it make a difference if it was a friend who booked the tickets - we were travelling as a group and he booked all the tickets so we were all together.

No, that doesn't matter. You are allowed to buy tickets for someone else.

 

[Haywain]

Hmm so bang on 1 hour. They may well try to weasel out of it!

That shouldn't be an issue, given that the terms of Delay Repay for East Coast specify a delay of "between 60 and 119 minutes".

 

[yorkie]

That shouldn't be an issue, given that the terms of Delay Repay for East Coast specify a delay of "between 60 and 119 minutes".

I agree, it shouldn't be an issue.

But EC do not like to admit that we "may use two or more tickets for one journey".

If I was to predict what may happen (which is impossible to do reliably as different staff will adhere to the EC agenda in a different way) I'd say that they will probably grudgingly accept the journey was over an hour late but refuse to pay anything other than the part of the journey that was made on East Coast. Which, of course, is wrong and a contradiction, but that is what most such claims seem to result in, but it does vary.

 

[crispy1978]

I agree, it shouldn't be an issue.

But EC do not like to admit that we "may use two or more tickets for one journey".

If I was to predict what may happen (which is impossible to do reliably as different staff will adhere to the EC agenda in a different way) I'd say that they will probably grudgingly accept the journey was over an hour late but refuse to pay anything other than the part of the journey that was made on East Coast. Which, of course, is wrong and a contradiction, but that is what most such claims seem to result in, but it does vary.

It was put in the post box last night en route to the beach for an evening stroll. Will let you know what the outcome is - and if necessary, I will pursue the YRK-SCA segment given the posts above to try and get everything I can out of them! To be honest, I have had reason to claim before, but never really known exactly how to go about it, so never bothered - but as they were handing out forms at York station on Monday evening, I thought "what the heck" and decided I'm going for it this time...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Am I right in saying worst case scenario is 50% of AYR-YRK (£22.55 x 50% = £11.28), and best case scenario is 100% of the whole journey AYR-YRK-SCA (£22.55 + £7.00 = £29.25)?

 

[leyscjd]

Yes, exactly.

If they decide to ignore the York-Scarborough piece, they will refund you half of the Ayr-York piece as you were 55 late on that leg.

That would make me even more determined to appeal for the whole journey, quoting condition 19 if required. Your journey was from Ayr to Scarborough-it should not matter how many tickets you had to cover the journey you were making.

In terms of compensation, you should not be penalised for splitting tickets. As I said I would expect EC to do the right thing (perhaps at the 2nd or 3rd attempt) but don't expect the support of Passenger Focus if they don't, at least based on my previous experience.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

That shouldn't be an issue, given that the terms of Delay Repay for East Coast specify a delay of "between 60 and 119 minutes".

Technically speaking 60 minutes is not "between 60 and 119 minutes".

 

[Haywain]

Technically speaking 60 minutes is not "between 60 and 119 minutes".

Given that the (relevant) alternative is "between 30 and 59 minutes", I think it is entirely reasonable to say that 60 minutes is between 60 and 119.

 

[bb21]

But EC do not like to admit that we "may use two or more tickets for one journey".

... or if they are anything like EMT, admit that the pass "may use two or more tickets for one journey" but deny that Delay Repay works on that basis.

 

[crispy1978]

How long ordinarily does it take for EC to respond to Delay Repay Claims?

 

[bb21]

My last claim (submitted online) took four days, and generally speaking I have never needed to wait longer than a couple of weeks.

My current one (also submitted online) is still being processed - five days and counting.

 

[crispy1978]

Has been two weeks today this one I sent via post (wasn't aware you could submit online!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Arrived this morning, the full £29.55.

Thanks for all your advice on this one
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Reading through the letter, it says the tickets can't be used online, which is how I do 99% of my train bookings.

So.....as I usually go for the advance fares, can I get those same advance fares by ringing up or by visiting the station? If not, that might cause a dilemma on how to use them to the best of my advantage!

Presumably, they can also be used in conjunction with a disabled railcard I assume?

 

[leyscjd]

Excellent news, good on East Coast. A shame First Capital Connect choose not to implement the same policy on compensation for split tickets.

 

[maddeningcrowds]

A bit late but I hope this is helpful if the query comes up again.

The full wording in the passenger charter states:

"If you arrive at your destination station late as a result of delay to and/or cancellation of an East Coast service...."​

The text on their website is different and implies a different meaning:

"Customers delayed on East Coast services...."​

The former is more favorable wording in my opinion, since it relates to the destination station (which may be anywhere) and not the East Coast journey (which must be on the East Coast route). The former is the formal passenger charter, so presumably takes precedence.

 

[John @ home]

it says the tickets can't be used online, which is how I do 99% of my train bookings.

It's unfortunate that the train companies have taken so long to make Rail Travel Vouchers a method of online payment. We really need to increase the pressure on them.

I usually go for the advance fares, can I get those same advance fares by ringing up or by visiting the station?

In some cases. The East Coast online discount (2% - 11%) is not available and the East Midlands £1 off is not available. As far as I can remember, the other train companies' Advance prices with a Disabled Railcard are the same online, by phone, or at the station. Beware delivery charges if buying by phone!

Presumably they can also be used in conjunction with a disabled railcard I assume?

Yes.