Delayed on one leg of journey involving split ticketing

[Trainfan344]

On the 20th December I am travelling home from Stoke-on-Trent to Lowestoft via London and Norwich, I have booked advances from Stoke to Euston and Euston to Norwich, and have left the minimum connection time around london, but what if I am delayed on my first journey, will the second train company honour my ticket still?

 

[maniacmartin]

Yes__

 

[yorkie]

On the 20th December I am travelling home from Stoke-on-Trent to Lowestoft via London and Norwich, I have booked advances from Stoke to Euston and Euston to Norwich, and have left the minimum connection time around london, but what if I am delayed on my first journey, will the second train company honour my ticket still?

You may use two or more tickets for one journey (see Split ticketing) this includes all ticket types (see Advance tickets, where a PDF copy of the relevant page in The Manual has been provided).

You are covered for your entire journey in the event of delays. Compensation for delays may be applicable for your journey, depending on the extent of delay and the Train Company/Companies involved.

If you wish your journey to be Stoke to Lowestoft, which you are entitled to do, I would not claim that Stoke to Euston is your "first journey".

Obviously, you do need to allow at least the minimum interchange times between tickets. My post above assumes you have done this!

 

[Trainfan344]

Yes, I just wanted to make sure I was covered, there was another topic I made about cross london transfer on this journey, I plan to buy a train ticket from the guard on the GA service from london to Norwich for the Norwich to Lowestoft leg.

 

[island]

That could cause unintended consequences. I would suggest you ensure you have purchased all the tickets for your full intended journey before you set off.

 

[Trainfan344]

That could cause unintended consequences. I would suggest you ensure you have purchased all the tickets for your full intended journey before you set off.

What unintended consequences?

 

[Buttsy]

I think the main one would be that GA only have an obligation to get you back to Norwich, not Lowestoft, so you could end up in Norwich with no way of getting home.

 

[island]

Precisely this. If you become aware of difficulties with making the Norwich/Lowestoft journey/sub-journey before you have purchased a ticket for it, the Train Operating Company's obligations to you will be significantly lessened.

 

[Trainfan344]

I think I'll be alright to risk it if that is the only consequence, as if I am stuck in Norwich, Parents are able to get me, am only going to Lowestoft due to easyness in getting a lift from the station.

 

[bb21]

I have booked advances from Stoke to Euston and Euston to Norwich

Do you mean a ticket from Zone U1* Londn?

 

[edwin_m]

Do you mean a ticket from Zone U1* Londn?

Is that necessary if the passenger holds an Oyster PAYG or suitable Travelcard?

 

[bb21]

Is that necessary if the passenger holds an Oyster PAYG or suitable Travelcard?

I can't guarantee that Oyster PAYG would cover you. There certainly is no consensus whether Oyster PAYG would be acceptable.

An existing Travelcard is fine.

 

[trivran]

I plan to buy a train ticket from the guard on the GA service from london to Norwich for the Norwich to Lowestoft leg.

Do GA let you do that?

 

[bb21]

Do GA let you do that?

Why would they not? He is buying a ticket for future travel.

 

[yorkie]

Some guards (not necessarily on GA, but on XC for example) will say "Buy it from the ticket office at Norwich".

If a ticket is purchased when a delay is already known about, then that may alter whether or not compensation is due.

The rail companies can refuse to sell a ticket if they are unable to provide a service, if there is extreme disruption.

But other than that, there's no problem!

 

[bb21]

Yes, but under normal circumstances most guards would be happy for a bit of extra commission.

If the OP is worried about missing the last connection of the day, it is recommended that all tickets are purchased prior to making the journey.

 

[Trainfan344]

Do you mean a ticket from Zone U1* Londn?

Sorry, yes I do.

Yes, but under normal circumstances most guards would be happy for a bit of extra commission.

If the OP is worried about missing the last connection of the day, it is recommended that all tickets are purchased prior to making the journey.

Well it won't be the last connection of the day and it might make the guard that little bit happier...

 

[pennine]

I was in a situation once coming back from Kingscross to Redcar at very short notice. I did the cheapest option of buying a Off-Peak single to Eaglescliffe and then a single from there to Redcar. There was a 7 minute connection time, but as I was delayed on the Grand Central, I missed the last service to Redcar.

As the station isn't manned at night, I rang National Rail Enquries (as advised when I was at one of their customer feedback groups), explained my situation, and was told that I wasn't entitled to any help as I didn't have one ticket covering the entire journey.

In that situation, little money, tiredness etc, I felt pretty vulnerable and upset.

 

[bb21]

What happened at the end? Did you complain afterwards?

 

[pennine]

I waited an hour, got the next train which terminated in Middlesbrough, then ran for the last bus to Redcar. I didn't complain (although maybe I should have). Its just such a shame, since then I have become more familiar with the rules, but there has been times with my railcard where I could use Advances from Middlesbrough to Manchester and Manchester to London which would have been cheaper - I think if anything went wrong and I was asked why did you travel this route id feel a bit daft saying 'I fancied a change of scenery'.

 

[island]

I personally think that the rules should be that passengers choosing to split tickets should only be compensated based on the price of the portion of the journey they were delayed on, and if disrupted should be carried only as far as the end of the current ticket in use by alternative methods. There would then be an entitlement to be carried onward by said alternative methods as though the passenger was commencing his/her journey at that place/time (e.g. if using an Advance ticket and late, then nothing; if in time for the last train of the day but that in turn is cancelled, then alternative carriage).

However, the rules as they are now do quite clearly envisage the use of multiple tickets for one journey and for compensation and alternative carriage to be based on the final railhead for which a ticket is held.

 

[yorkie]

I stongly disagree with such a proposal, for so many reasons. Some passengers have to book separate tickets, some may change plans (and a ticket office may not know how to issue an excess to get it on one ticket) and some may wish to book with each operator as soon as that particular operator opens for reservations. It's not just about saving money.

On many occasions, Train Companies will suggest a combination of tickets!

And even if the passenger is saving money, then it's reducing the level of any delay compensation anyway.

I am content with the current rules remaining in place.

 

[Oscar]

I could understand that TOCs may only want to pay compensation on the portion of the journey the passenger is delayed on (this is the current procedure in Germany), as split ticketing typically reduces TOC revenue, but removing protection in the case of disruption would be unacceptable, as this is a crucial part of passengers' contract with the TOCs, and because some passengers may be forced to split tickets.

 

[SickyNicky]

Yes, I'm afraid that I too must disagree with you on this one, island. There are many journeys that require two or more tickets because either there simply isn't a through ticket, the route you need to take is invalid or all the through tickets exclude an otherwise permitted route.

In these cases, National Rail Enquiries will offer a combination of tickets and it would be unfair on the passenger to strand them at some random point on their journey just because a previous train was running late. Indeed, I submit that it's reasonable that delay repay should be fully payable in these circumstances as well (and next time this happens to me I will not be satisfied with a voucher for one leg of the journey).

 

[island]

Yes, I'm afraid that I too must disagree with you on this one, island. There are many journeys that require two or more tickets because either there simply isn't a through ticket, the route you need to take is invalid or all the through tickets exclude an otherwise permitted route.

But I said passengers "choosing" to split tickets. These categories of passengers which you describe have not chosen.

 

[SickyNicky]

But I said passengers "choosing" to split tickets. These categories of passengers which you describe have not chosen.

Ah yes, my apologies - careful use of language which I missed.

I would imagine that it would be hard to discriminate between passengers who "could" have purchased a through ticket and those who were unable to though.

In any case, there are other reasons (apart from getting cheaper fares) why a passenger may split tickets. For example, their travel plans may change once their journey has started. I imagine that these would be impossible to distinguish against fare savers.

 

[pennine]

While I understand your reasoning for this, the current fare structure isn't that friendly and there is some barbaric fares. But as someone on a low wage, cost does have to be a factor in a lot of my journeys.

I suppose its down to the tickets covering the journey, and the minimum connection times are met, I am quite happy to pursue such complaint if I missed the last connection in future.

I personally think that the rules should be that passengers choosing to split tickets should only be compensated based on the price of the portion of the journey they were delayed on, and if disrupted should be carried only as far as the end of the current ticket in use by alternative methods. There would then be an entitlement to be carried onward by said alternative methods as though the passenger was commencing his/her journey at that place/time (e.g. if using an Advance ticket and late, then nothing; if in time for the last train of the day but that in turn is cancelled, then alternative carriage).

However, the rules as they are now do quite clearly envisage the use of multiple tickets for one journey and for compensation and alternative carriage to be based on the final railhead for which a ticket is held.

 

[Crossover]

If the OP is worried about missing the last connection of the day, it is recommended that all tickets are purchased prior to making the journey.

I would agree with this notion. In Feb I am doing a day trip to the Norwich area and have advances to cover part of the journey home (ticket as far as Leeds) but via York. There is a 8 or so min connection at York then at Leeds pretty much the min connection time to the last service on my local line. For the sake of the extra £3 I may lose if I weren't to undertake the trip, I booked an Anytime Single along with the AP's so there can be absolutely no argument/dispute!

The above also demonstrates splitting tickets not for cost reasons, but to get the times I need