Delayed by Tube breakdown - options?

[TonyR]

I was due to catch the 15:54 Euston (EUS) to Manchester Piccadilly (MAN) on a EUS-Milton Keynes (MKC)-Rugby (RUG)-Stockport (SPT)-MAN Anytime 1st ticket bought on here. Would easily have made it except the Northern Line train I was on broke down between Old St and Kings Cross (KGX). By the time they had nursed it to KGX where we were thrown off and I walked to Euston, my train had gone. When I asked at the Euston ticket offiice if I could have permission to catch the 16:33 I was told my only option was to take the 16:43 to MKC and then get off and catch the 16:53 from EUS-MAN when it came through. When I asked if I could just get the 16:53 from Euston I was told MKC was a pickup only station so my split wouldn’t work and I had to travel to MKC, get off and be picked up by the following train. This seems awfully obstructive but were my expectations wrong or was she just being awkward ?

 

[Watershed]

Could you clarify what tickets you had? Were they split EUS-MKC, MKC-RUG, RUG-SPT, SPT-MAN tickets?

Did you hold a through ticket that covered you on the Underground (e.g. Underground Zone 1 to MKC), or were you just using contactless/Oyster PAYG for that part? Did your journey to Euston involve any National Rail services or was it purely a journey on the Tube?

If you held a through ticket involving the Underground then the situation may be different, but in principle it's possible the staff at Euston were correct - or arguably even less obstructive than they could have been. This is because the 16:53 also has "set down only" restrictions at RUG, so in theory you're not permitted to split there either and would have to take a different service from there to SPT/MAN.

That being said, my understanding is that the "set down only" restrictions at RUG, like those at Nuneaton & Stafford, are not enforced in practice - the trains are advertised as calling there both at the stations and onboard. I can only imagine it's intended to prevent online journey planners from offering splits at those stations.

 

[TonyR]

Thank. You got the ticket splits right. I took NR to LBG arriving 115:15 and then Northern Line which broke down. I think you’re right about set-downs. The platform here at MKC is empty

Just looked at the new NR app and it says nothing about pick-up only.

 

[Watershed]

Thank. You got the ticket splits right. I took NR to LBG arriving 115:15 and then Northern Line which broke down. I think you’re right about set-downs. The platform here at MKC is empty

To clarify - where did you start your NR (National Rail?) journey to London Bridge - Gatwick (GTW) or East Croydon (ECR)? The only scheduled LBG arrival at 15:15 on a weekday is a Thameslink service from Brighton, for which GTW and ECR are the preceding stops within the PAYG area.

Did you use Oyster/contactless all the way from GTW/ECR to EUS? If so, what time did you touch in and was there any disruption? This may change the position.

If you planned to arrive into LBG on the 15:15, unfortunately this does not provide an official connection onto the 15:53 from EUS. During weekday daytimes, you need to allow at least 48 minutes from LBG to EUS for it to be a valid connection.

 

[TonyR]

To clarify - where did you start your NR (National Rail?) journey to London Bridge - Gatwick (GTW) or East Croydon (ECR)? The only scheduled LBG arrival at 15:15 on a weekday is a Thameslink service from Brighton, for which GTW and ECR are the preceding stops within the PAYG area.

Did you use Oyster/contactless all the way from GTW/ECR to EUS? If so, what time did you touch in and was there any disruption? This may change the position.

If you planned to arrive into LBG on the 15:15, unfortunately this does not provide an official connection onto the 15:53 from EUS. During weekday daytimes, you need to allow at least 48 minutes from LBG to EUS for it to be a valid connection.

It was the 15:04 BCY-LBG paid for by contactless. Suprisedi it‘s 48 mins. Its only about 15 mins on the Tube so plenty of time. Anyway, on my way now on the 16:53 picked up at MKC It’s good to be aware that a split ticket has to be on a train that not only stops but allows you theoretically to get off and back on. I had always understood the train just needed to stop at the split points for validity. Don’t know whether I just missed any warning of that or whether it needs to be made clearer. And how do you find out because as I noted, the National Rail new app says nothing about pick-up only at MKC and RUG so how would you know?

 

[Watershed]

It was the 15:04 BCY-LBG paid for by contactless.

In that case, unfortunately I think the staff were correct - the 15:04 from Brockley does not provide a valid connection onto the 15:53 from Euston.

Suprisedi it‘s 48 mins. Its only about 15 mins on the Tube so plenty of time.

I agree - however, the official cross-London transfer times are heavily padded. You have to allow the minimum interchange time at each station - 10 mins at LBG and 15 at EUS - plus the specified Tube transfer time (23 mins during weekday daytimes, which is about right considering the possibility of a gap in Northern line trains).

Really it's the 15 min interchange time at EUS that is excessive - in my mind it could be reduced to something like 10 mins and that would still be plenty. The walk from the platforms to the Underground is far less than the walk at LBG, where only 10 mins is allowed. There are very few journeys where you would change between National Rail services at Euston, so this would mostly just affect cross-London journeys. However, I can't see it changing anytime soon.

Anyway, on my way now on the 16:53 picked up at MKC It’s good to be aware that a split ticket has to be on a train that not only stops but allows you theoretically to get off and back on. I had always understood the train just needed to stop at the split points for validity. Don’t know whether I just missed any warning of that or whether it needs to be made clearer.

That's always been the position, although it was only clearly stated in this April's NRCoT I believe. Perhaps an improvement suggestion for those who run TrainSplit (which the forum's ticket site is based on) to consider?

And how do you find out because as I noted, the National Rail new app says nothing about pick-up only at MKC and RUG so how would you know?

Booking sites should show pick up/set down restrictions; in practice I find it easiest to use something like Real Time Trains or FastJP to see what calls a train makes.

 

[TonyR]

Booking sites should show pick up/set down restrictions; in practice I find it easiest to use something like Real Time Trains or FastJP to see what calls a train makes.

Yes but if the National Rail app does not show any pick-up or set-down restrictions should they be able to get you for that infringement. I could have used it to decide to catch the 16:53 in EUS on the basis National Rail showed it as stopping at the necessary stations without any restrictions being shown.

 

[Watershed]

Yes but if the National Rail app does not show any pick-up or set-down restrictions should they be able to get you for that infringement. I could have used it to decide to catch the 16:53 in EUS on the basis National Rail showed it as stopping at the necessary stations without any restrictions being shown.

I don't think you would be allowed to board, it is as simple as that.