Delay Repay when trains are full up

[CNash]

A train that normally runs with eight coaches is short-formed one day and runs with four. This causes the train to become full to capacity when it reaches a busy station. The passengers who are unable to board the train must wait 30 minutes for the next train to their destination. Can they claim Delay Repay?

 

[OwlMan]

Depends if they arrive at their final destination 30 minutes late. It is when you arrive at your final destination that counts not when you depart.

 

[CNash]

Sorry - assume that they do arrive 30 minutes late, because the train following is the same service, calling at the same stations.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I had a similar situation a while back whilst travelling from St Pancras to Manchester via Sheffield. My booked connection from Sheffield was cancelled due to no train crew to work it forward, and I was physically unable to board the next three trains due to overcrowding.

Submitted a claim to TPE (as it was their train that was initially cancelled) with a covering note, and duly got a full refund for the resulting 90 minute delay.

 

[fusionblue]

Interesting, because i was delayed going to Farringdon (following train was 32 minutes later) in the exact way as Cnash. All 4 coaches was full up to the doors and nobody else could board. I called southeastern and explained and they agreed to do a delay repay.

I then get an email rejecting it:

"It's our aim for no passenger to stand for more than 20 minutes on any of our services. But unfortunately we cannot ever guarantee a seat as we run a turn up and go service due to high number of commuters. On this basis, we cannot offer compensation for a crowded service as it is a passengers decision whether or not they wish to attempt to board a busy train."

I called again and they again agreed to do a delay repay. Then they rejected me again saying largely the same thing.

 

[maniacmartin]

It's not a passenger's decision if there's no room to board, seat or otherwise.

This is why sometimes it's useful to use the paper form rather than online as you can attach a note explaining the facts rather than them second-guessing it wrongly.

 

[fusionblue]

It's not a passenger's decision if there's no room to board, seat or otherwise.

This is why sometimes it's useful to use the paper form rather than online as you can attach a note explaining the facts rather than them second-guessing it wrongly.

I called them both times (i did not use the online or paper forms) and they put it through manually, noting the details about not being able to board.

The second rejection stated: "I understand the service was crowded so you did not travel on this service, however as this train ran you are not entitled to compensation under the delay repay scheme. Southeastern run a turn up and go service, similar to the London underground (no reserve seating). This means there is no restriction on the number of passengers that can board any service but I can certainly appreciate that travelling on a crowded train isn't pleasant."

I called them last night and they told me that under these circumstances, delay repay is not valid as:

1 - There's no way to prove i didn't get on the train. (the exit gates at farringdon?)
2 - There may have been space further down the platform (i tried to get on at the front, and saw people left behind all the way down the platform?)

I'm not quite sure how to proceed, as this does fly in the face of "irrespective of what caused the delay".

 

[Tetchytyke]

It'll have to be Passenger Focus, explaining that the train was short formed and you couldn't board.

 

[maniacmartin]

Southeastern's Passenger Charter uses this wording:

If delays occur we’ll endeavour to get you to your destination as
quickly as possible. If you miss your last train because of a delay
to one of our services, we’ll arrange onward transport either by
road or with another train operating company or if this is not
possible we will provide overnight accommodation.

If your journey is delayed we will provide the information you
need to complete your journey and to make a claim for
compensation if your journey is delayed by 30 minutes or more.

Note the use of 'journey', not 'train'. As such, even though the train may have ran on time,.as your journey was delayed I believe you are technically eligible for Delay Repay.

 

[Starmill]

I had a similar situation to this recently from Leeds with TPE. I don't think the train was short formed, but it was late, so I (and many other people) were unable to board the train I had an Advance ticket and Seat Reservation on. I was also unable to board the next service, almost immediately behind. I boarded the third service but this resulted in more than 30 mins delay to the overall journey. I wrote to TPE, enclosing tickets and explaining that I had been delayed and why, and pointing out that I had stood for the length of my journey because I wasn't on the train I was booked for, and there were no seats available on the train I actually used, both of which should trigger compensation.

They responded with a lengthy account of why I was not entitled to anything, but then said at the end of it that "In view of your particular circumstances, I am happy to go outside of our normal policy on this occasion and have enclosed £X.XX in Rail Travel Vouchers." They sent me 100% of the value of the tickets. I do wonder if they are just trying to make themselves look generous sometimes...

 

[RJ]

I put in a claim once. A member of gateline staff refused to let me through the barriers because she believed that it was not permissible to start a journey at an intermediate station on the line of route with a season ticket. As a result, I missed the half hourly service I had left a good 5 minutes to catch. I only was let through after the ticket office clerk phoned through to their pricing department who confirmed I was right.

The TOC accepted the claim and added a bit extra on top to apologise for the inconvenience.

Another time, I was delayed by over 30 minutes. The ticket office at Nuneaton was shut, so I bought a ticket for part of my journey at the TVM. I found the guard in the back cab XC train and he was cashing up, so no oppotunity to buy a ticket. I had 25 minutes interchange at Leicester. The ticket office clerk withdrew my ticket when I asked her to change it to the one I wanted and spent over 30 minutes being unhelpful. The guard on the final leg of the journey sorted it in no time.

EMT approved my delay repay claim and again, added a bit by way of apology.

I think TOCs are quite sympathetic when their personnel pose an unnecessary hindrance to the progess of a paying customer's journey. Technically, it is something under their control so they are obliged to pay out.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I once had this with Northern. Christmas shopping traffic meant that lots and lots of people were turning up for the hourly train home. It is normally a 3 car 144 and full and standing in normal conditions. This date it was a 2 car 142 and myself, and my group of friends - and many others could not physically get on the train. The next train was an hour later which we could board. We complained and requested compensation for our journey being delayed and they responded by saying that as far as they were concerned the train ran on time and they have no control over the number of people who were turning up to travel. The fact that during the day there are 3 trains an hour, but from early evening there is only 1, and it was smaller than normal, they said was irrelevant. They flatly refused any compensation and not even one of their free 1day travel vouchers they used to hand out like confetti.

 

[fusionblue]

So i decided to raise this as a complaint, citing that my journey was delayed and that it wasn't my fault the train was short, it wasn't my fault i couldn't get on and lost half an hour as a result.

If this fails, straight to Passenger Focus.

*fingers crossed*

 

[itsjamierawr]

I've claimed against Southeastern for this exact reason. They short formed what is usually a 12 car service in the evening peak to 8 cars and when it arrived at London Bridge (I recall it was an 17 or 18 something train) I wasn't able to physically board (I walked all the way down the train every door was rammed full). I waited for the next train and arrived exactly half an hour late into Canterbury West. You can't claim via delay repay forms but if you e-mail customer services making sure you put "Delay compensation" in the subject and include all the usual details, photo of the tickets, your address they'll send you a voucher in the mail with the automatic delay repay letter within a week or two (they did in my case anyway)

 

[fusionblue]

SET rejected my claim a third time, so i went to London Travelwatch with it.

Eventually SET agreed to compensate me for the fare plus extra as a measure of goodwill.

Their response was interesting however:

SET explain that short formed trains, sometimes due to circumstances beyond their control do happen, and some passengers choose not to board them as they do not like crowded trains.

They seem to have ignored, for the fourth time, that i did not choose to not board but simply could not board entirely. Not quite sure how to respond concerning that point however, but at least they finally followed procedure and compensated me.

 

[talldave]

Another example of a train company completely oblivious to the realities of using their own services. They just cannot comprehend that you couldn't physically get on the train because it's full!