Delay repay - what should I *actually* get?

[orpine]

I was delayed by about 61 minutes on an XC. My journey was returning from Taunton to Warwick.

To save a few £, I split the ticket as thus (I know this isn't the optimally cheap; it was to give me flexibility as I had to pre-buy tickets). All were offpeak returns (NOT day returns).
Warwick to Gloucester, £25.10
Gloucester to Bristol, £17.10
Bristol to Taunton. £19.30

The total cost of these tickets is £61.50.

The folks at XC have finally processed my refund and decided I am worthy of the princely sum of £8.55. Seriously? Is that a joke?
I thought it was 100% of a single after 60 minutes (that's what everything says). How the heck did they get £8.55?

A non-split Wrw-TAU return is £72, or £70 for a single (anytime).

So, how much does the forum think I should be getting?

And what happens when the cost of a single is more than the cost of a return? (The wrw-gloucester portion - £25.10 for a return (Offpeak), £29 for a single (anytime)!)

 

[yorkie]

The cost of other tickets is irrelevant.

Your journey cost £61.50 return, so the pro-rata amount for consideration of a delay to a single leg of your journey is £30.75.

If XC accept you were greater than 60 minutes late, then they should be compensating you £30.75.

If you can reveal the day/time of your planned vs actual itinerary, (via PM if you prefer) we can see if the delay can be verified.

You could write to them, asking if there has been a mistake, and reminding them of the cost of your journey. If they deny you can combine two or more tickets for one journey, you may wish to remind them of NRCoC Condition 19.

 

[transportphoto]

I have had a similar issue with Arriva XC.. I phoned them and the operator on the phone accepted there had been an error and that he'd pass it on to the person who initially dealt with it for follow up.

I heard nothing back within the time frame he gave me, so I phoned back and then got told that they had no record whatsoever of the follow up call I made. Only then did they actually send out the extra they had agreed I was due. If I were you, I'd make a record of every detail possible!

TP

 

[orpine]

Oh don't worry, I plan on telling them they messed up, and records are kept.
And they've already verified/confirmed it in their reply quoting: "As I have validated your delay as 60 minutes..." (I'm sure it was 61, but whatever )

The cost of other tickets is irrelevant.

Your journey cost £61.50 return, so the pro-rata amount for consideration of a delay to a single leg of your journey is £30.75.

If XC accept you were greater than 60 minutes late, then they should be compensating you £30.75.

Hmmm. Does that mean I can go and buy a single for £30.75? Because if I can't how can they refund me at a pro-rata rate? Doesn't seem very fair.

===

Looking further into it:
The NRCoC says (42-b) only that I get "10% of the price paid" for a return. Hmm
The XC website is utterly useless and says nothing - http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/customer-service/faqs/getting-a-refund
But I happen to have a spare form, it says:

100% of the cost of your single ticket, or 100% of the cost of either portion of your return ticket

So what is a "portion" of my return ticket? I guess that's the half you're referring to Yorkie. Still doesn't seem fair given I can't actually buy a single for that price (or even half of one!)

I'll now go and write them a scathing email. Maybe I should ask if they'll be forgiving if I "accidentally" only pay a fraction of my next ticket with them.

 

[Goatboy]

It's half the return cost and they should add the tickets together - they did for me.

 

[Deerfold]

Warwick to Gloucester, £25.10
Gloucester to Bristol, £17.10
Bristol to Taunton. £19.30

The total cost of these tickets is £61.50.

The folks at XC have finally processed my refund and decided I am worthy of the princely sum of £8.55. Seriously? Is that a joke?
I thought it was 100% of a single after 60 minutes (that's what everything says). How the heck did they get £8.55?

As to how they've got it - they appear to have given you 50% of the Gloucester to Bristol ticket.

http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/media/61882/delay_repay_form_sept_2010.pdf

I'm guessing that's where a delay of 60+ minutes occurred.

I'm also guessing that any total additional delay was for less than 30 minutes and so they've decided not to refund you any extra.

I don't think that's right, but I think that's what they've done.

 

[orpine]

And I thought I was bad at maths! Funny how the refund only covered the cheapest of the tickets, hmmm.
Email sent; we'll see what they say.

 

[yorkie]

So what is a "portion" of my return ticket? I guess that's the half you're referring to Yorkie. Still doesn't seem fair given I can't actually buy a single for that price (or even half of one!)

I disagree; it seems totally reasonable to get 50% of the cost of a return.

The Train Companies who participate in Delay Repay are probably "fairer" to the customer than in any other industry. Some industries would actually charge YOU more for a delay, while many would simply not give you a penny back.

You have the option to purchase Singles or Returns, whichever you feel offers you the best value for money. Had you purchased Singles, you would have been compensated more, that is true, but you would have spent more overall!

If you wish to complain at the cost of Singles being greater than 50% of the cost of Returns, then that is a matter for an entirely new thread, however I do not see a need for such a thread, given that the matter has been debated so much on here, that there is probably enough reading material to keep you busy for several hours on that subject

I'll now go and write them a scathing email. Maybe I should ask if they'll be forgiving if I "accidentally" only pay a fraction of my next ticket with them.

I find that it's best not to be scathing, but to refer to the conditions, and be assertive.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And I thought I was bad at maths! Funny how the refund only covered the cheapest of the tickets, hmmm.
Email sent; we'll see what they say.

Train Companies do make mistakes, so it could be that.

But some do try it on, many people will not understand their rights and just accept being fobbed off, while many others simply do not have the time to go chasing them to stick to their promises.

XC's customer services are particularly anti-passenger, but don't get me started on that...

 

[orpine]

I find that it's best not to be scathing, but to refer to the conditions, and be assertive.

That's pretty much my definition of scathing.

But some do try it on, many people will not understand their rights and just accept being fobbed off, while many others simply do not have the time to go chasing them to stick to their promises.

XC's customer services are particularly anti-passenger, but don't get me started on that...

That's the thing, as an individual passenger I can never know if it's an accident or intentional. The fact their website is useless and the letter doesn't include specifics about %'s leans me towards the cynical later. Is there a independent body that actually double checks that refunds are being done correctly (look at a sample of a few % and see how many are wrong)?

 

[WelshBluebird]

To give XC some credit, I usually buy splits when I visit my girlfriend and have claimed delay repay twice with no issues about them offering me the full amount I expected.

 

[yorkie]

To give XC some credit, I usually buy splits when I visit my girlfriend and have claimed delay repay twice with no issues about them offering me the full amount I expected.

That's good to hear. It may well be a mistake then. Perhaps the way the letter is worded should reflect this? That would be my recommendation anyway!

 

[orpine]

That's good to hear. It may well be a mistake then. Perhaps the way the letter is worded should reflect this? That would be my recommendation anyway!

I did include that as one of my four things for them to action in the email I sent them. Others including fixing their website, explain why their made the mistake, and oh yes, giving me more vouchers.

 

[bb21]

So, how much does the forum think I should be getting?

Depends on who you listen to. Unfortunately the wording of the scheme is poor, so leaves much to interpretation.

Oh don't worry, I plan on telling them they messed up, and records are kept.

Just be aware that if they refuse to back down, you are pretty much on your own.

Unlike many of the others on here, I am much less optimistic of a favourable outcome having had the misfortune to be involved in a similar dispute previously. Suffice to say that the quangos were a complete waste of space. I am not sure how many others have had dealings with them regarding similar issues. My own experiences were distinctly unimpressive.

If XC refuse to budge, I don't know who you will be able to turn to.

Best of luck, but I think you might need it. Here's to hoping that you get someone sympathetic.

 

[orpine]

Best of luck, but I think you might need it. Here's to hoping that you get someone sympathetic.

Thanks. I have this bad habit of being rather stubborn when it comes to organisations not behaving themselves; it usually works out for the best.

 

[bb21]

Thanks. I have this bad habit of being rather stubborn when it comes to organisations not behaving themselves; it usually works out for the best.

I tried being stubborn. Didn't work. The bottom line is that you can't force them to do it, and there is no one you can turn to who has the power to overrule the decision because it was so poorly implemented.

 

[orpine]

Well, they got back to me and the short version is have given me a "goodwill" gesture of £22.20. So the total is the correct £30.75.

However, they say this:

we had only taken into account the ticket between bristol temple meads and cheltenham. Although passengers are permitted to purchase a number of tickets to make a journey, a number of rule must be followed. Compensation is based on length of delay and the cost of the ticket for the affected leg. Each ticket you purchase represents a different contract and as your tickets were open you could have taken any train.

This one is (print) signed by their "Customer Relations Duty Manager" (the first was a mere CR "Consultant").

Is this correct? It doesn't seem like it is based on my understanding from these forums. I thought the refund was meant to be for a "journey" (that's what the refund form says)?

And of course, they completely failed to address my issues about their website being useless and their form letter being almost as bad. But that's just going to get me sending them another email.

 

[Goatboy]

That looks like a terribly written reply, whats with the grammar? Since when wasn't Cheltenham a proper noun? What sort of organisation promotes somebody who writes like that to 'manager' when the main purpose of the department is to correspond professionally with customers?

as your tickets were open you could have taken any train.

I don't even understand the relevance of this bit.

 

[maniacmartin]

I don't agree with them that every ticket is a separate contract, when the NRCoC specifically says you can use multiple tickets for one journey

 

[yorkie]

It's not correct. They don't want you to challenge it though.

I'd suggest you write back to them, and also contact Passenger Focus.

XC have a history of trying to avoid compliance with the NRCoC. Their tactics usually work as most people don't pursue it.

 

[bb21]

Passenger Focus are absolutely useless on these matters in my experience.

 

[orpine]

Thanks for the information. Scathing (but factual!) response to XC imminent.

 

[34D]

Were you on time from Taunton to Bristol?