Delay Repay Using Contactless/Oyster/Smartcards

[JP]

Apologies if this is covered elsewhere, a quick search brought nothing up.

With the likes of Real Time Trains, National Rail, TOC information and Citymapper etc. all now available with live updates for the many of us with smartphones or internet access before starting a journey, we can see if our chosen train will be delayed or not before we get to the station or the platform.

Now, if I was planning on getting a train at say 3pm and I see on my phone that it is delayed until 3.30, I can just stay in a coffee shop or do something else rather than sit on a cold platform.

If I have an advance ticket I'd still be able to claim Delay Repay since it would be tied to that specific service regardless of what time I enter the station. If I'm using my contactless card such as on Thameslink or Southern in the South East, is this still the case? If I was planning on getting the 3pm train and I see it is delayed until 3.30 I might then choose not to touch into the station barrier until 3.20. This would possibly be the difference between being eligible for Delay Repay or not.

Is there something that allows such travellers to still get Delay Repay? They've been delayed, but can it be proven unless the person goes through the ticket gate? Perhaps in ongoing patterns of touching in for the same train using the same card, but what about irregular travellers?

 

[TMD Tom]

I used to work in Customer Relations at my previous job. I would have awarded compensation for the delay. The only time I would not have done so is if you did not travel on the next available train to your destination (providing the train you did get on was not then delayed).

The only time Oyster/Contacless becomes awkward is when journeys are not actually made and the customer is requesting a refund even though they did not actually tap in. I had that a few times.

Generally, as with all things in life, if you approach it the right way you will more than likely get what you ask for. Rightly or wrongly this is still the case with Customer Relations/Service.

 

[Hophead]

Surely Delay Repay is worked out dependent upon the delay to your arrival, not your departure? If the service is clockface half-hourly, and you have no connection to make, then it would seem that you have a case.

However, if the delayed train skips some stops and time is made up, or you are able to make a connection in, say, 3 minutes (which would not normally be advertised), then you may not have a case.

 

[JP]

Surely Delay Repay is worked out dependent upon the delay to your arrival, not your departure? If the service is clockface half-hourly, and you have no connection to make, then it would seem that you have a case.

However, if the delayed train skips some stops and time is made up, or you are able to make a connection in, say, 3 minutes (which would not normally be advertised), then you may not have a case.

Well this is more a hypothetical situation rather than real one. But now that 15 minutes delay repay is possible on Thameslink your train arriving 30 minutes is probably unlikely to make up the time.

 

[Antman]

The only time I would not have done so is if you did not travel on the next available train to your destination

I am not aware of anything in the Delay Repay conditions that requires you to inconvenience yourself more than the delay is already doing so.

If a train I am planning on catching is cancelled I will generally avoid using the next train as it will inevitably be overcrowded, but would catch a subsequent train.

I have still been delayed reaching my destination at the time I wanted to get there, so don't see why I am only due compensation if I have to stand on the following rammed full train.

If the train company sends me an email or text telling me the train I wanted to catch is cancelled before I leave home or the office, I don't see that I am only entitled to compensation if I deliberately set out to catch a train I know won't be arriving.

It would be stupid to stand on an empty cold and wet platform when there is no need to.

The Delay Repay payment is to compensate for delaying me, not making me wait in the cold or suffering an overcrowded train.

 

[yorkie]

If I was planning on getting the 3pm train and I see it is delayed until 3.30 I might then choose not to touch into the station barrier until 3.20. This would possibly be the difference between being eligible for Delay Repay or not.

If there is no train between 1500 and 1530, then there is no problem making a claim. The fact you've not tapped in at 1500 isn't particularly relevant; with trains showing as 'delayed' it would be prudent not to tap in if you felt you may want to go for an alternative service and/or remain in the coffee shop until nearer the actual departure.

Indeed you may be advised not to tap in; for example if you wanted a GTR service from Victoria, which normally departs from platforms 16-19, it may be best to wait until the platform is confirmed, as otherwise you may find you're tapped in at the wrong gateline.

Providing you are acting reasonably, there can be no issue.

 

[AlterEgo]

I am not aware of anything in the Delay Repay conditions that requires you to inconvenience yourself more than the delay is already doing so.

If a train I am planning on catching is cancelled I will generally avoid using the next train as it will inevitably be overcrowded, but would catch a subsequent train.

I have still been delayed reaching my destination at the time I wanted to get there, so don't see why I am only due compensation if I have to stand on the following rammed full train.

If the train company sends me an email or text telling me the train I wanted to catch is cancelled before I leave home or the office, I don't see that I am only entitled to compensation if I deliberately set out to catch a train I know won't be arriving.

It would be stupid to stand on an empty cold and wet platform when there is no need to.

The Delay Repay payment is to compensate for delaying me, not making me wait in the cold or suffering an overcrowded train.

In general you may not delay yourself further intentionally. If the trains are full and you cannot physically board then that is different to just sitting it out because you prefer not to board a train where you have to stand.

You cannot increase the TOC's liability to you by letting trains go. The key is always to be reasonable.

 

[Antman]

To clarify, if a train runs every 30 minutes (which they tend to on my route), if the train I wanted to catch is cancelled I will be 30 minutes late.

I know the following service will be overcrowded as it will have twice the number of passengers.

So I may catch the one after, arriving an hour late or even a subsequent service. I will submit a claim for the unavoidable 30 minute delay, not a delay based on when I actually arrive.

Delay Repay is to compensate for being inconvenienced, once that is triggered it is my choice how to minimise that inconvenience.

 

[TMD Tom]

I am not aware of anything in the Delay Repay conditions that requires you to inconvenience yourself more than the delay is already doing so.

If a train I am planning on catching is cancelled I will generally avoid using the next train as it will inevitably be overcrowded, but would catch a subsequent train.

I have still been delayed reaching my destination at the time I wanted to get there, so don't see why I am only due compensation if I have to stand on the following rammed full train.

If the train company sends me an email or text telling me the train I wanted to catch is cancelled before I leave home or the office, I don't see that I am only entitled to compensation if I deliberately set out to catch a train I know won't be arriving.

It would be stupid to stand on an empty cold and wet platform when there is no need to.

The Delay Repay payment is to compensate for delaying me, not making me wait in the cold or suffering an overcrowded train.

If you know before arriving at the station that the train you plan to travel on is delayed or cancelled, and as a result you choose not to make your way to the station until such a time the train arrives, then of course you should still receive compensation (if the delay on arriving is 30 minutes or more).

If you physically cannot get on the next available train because it is overcrowded then again I agree you should receive compensation. I would say though in the vast majority of cases, if this next train arrives within 30 minutes your claim would be declined in the first instance unless you specifically said what the conditions were like at the station. The automated systems or clerks that TOC's use to process claims only go on what actually ran and when. They're not to know you could not have boarded the following train and had to wait for the one after.

 

[Antman]

If you know before arriving at the station that the train you plan to travel on is delayed or cancelled, and as a result you choose not to make your way to the station until such a time the train arrives, then of course you should still receive compensation (if the delay on arriving is 30 minutes or more).

I am glad there is agreement on this rather than the previous view that seemed to be saying you were not entitled to compensation unless you were physically present and waiting at the platform.

Such a view would make a mockery of all the information systems provided by train companies to prevent customers needing to do that.

 

[maniacmartin]

The second train could well arrive the destination 1 minute early, so the delay would end up being only 29 minutes and thus you wouldn't be eligible for anything. Timetable padding can make this quite likely - so check on realtimetrains.com before actually submitting the claim.

However, assuming the second train arrived exactly 30 minutes after the cancelled train, but you let it go and took a train 1 hour behind to have a more comfortable journey, I would say it would be reasonable to claim for the 30 minute delay, as this this is the earliest possible arrival time that you could have achieved.

 

[Antman]

The second train could well arrive the destination 1 minute early, so the delay would end up being only 29 minutes and thus you wouldn't be eligible for anything. Timetable padding can make this quite likely - so check on realtimetrains.com before actually submitting the claim.

To which my response would be there must have been padding on the earlier train so we should calculate the delay from the unpadded time.

Anyway if a train company was silly enough to claim the timetable was wrong and the train actually arrived a minute or two early, so yah, boo, sucks; then I think I could get more money than the refused Delay Repay by selling the "stupid train company" story to the tabloids.

 

[Deerfold]

Anyway if a train company was silly enough to claim the timetable was wrong and the train actually arrived a minute or two early, so yah, boo, sucks; then I think I could get more money than the refused Delay Repay by selling the "stupid train company" story to the tabloids.

I bet you couldn't.

Refusing compensation because a train was early does not suggest g the timetable is wrong.

 

[maniacmartin]

To which my response would be there must have been padding on the earlier train so we should calculate the delay from the unpadded time.

Sadly not. You just 'get lucky' by arriving a minute early on a normal day.

Anyway if a train company was silly enough to claim the timetable was wrong and the train actually arrived a minute or two early, so yah, boo, sucks; then I think I could get more money than the refused Delay Repay by selling the "stupid train company" story to the tabloids.

Good luck with that - you'll need it.

 

[Antman]

I have yet to see an official train company app or display board showing a train arriving (and leaving) early.

So if a clever employee decided to refuse a claim based on different information they were publicly putting out, then they would look very silly.

Given how the media loves a "leaves on the line" and "wrong kind of snow" story, I think they would be interested in a train company trying to cheat customers out of compensation by claiming trains arrived early, when its own app showed it didn't.

 

[Deerfold]

I have yet to see an official train company app or display board showing a train arriving (and leaving) early.

So if a clever employee decided to refuse a claim based on different information they were publicly putting out, then they would look very silly.

Given how the media loves a "leaves on the line" and "wrong kind of snow" story, I think they would be interested in a train company trying to cheat customers out of compensation by claiming trains arrived early, when its own app showed it didn't.

If that were the case then you might be right.

The National Rail app regularly shows my trains arriving early into Leeds - sometimes the London ones can be several minutes early.

I've just had a look at it now. Leeds isn't having a good morning, so I looked at Skipton where the 0740 from Leeds is shown as having arrived 3 minutes early with several other services showing as being 1 or 2 minutes early.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have yet to see an official train company app or display board showing a train arriving (and leaving) early.

You've not been looking hard enough.

 

[Antman]

You've not been looking hard enough.

Or I use a train line where arriving early is inconceivable.