Killingworth
Established Member
There are many examples of overcrowded trains recorded on services provided by multiple operators in the many threads on this forum. Sometimes the overcrowding is such that all cannot even get aboard so some have to wait for a later train. This may be only a few minutes but on some routes it may be hours, maybe requiring an entirely different route.
I will illustrate with a specific example but there will be many others every day with multiple variations.
In this case a group had booked online with EMR to go to Manchester Airport from unstaffed Grindleford on Saturday 4th April changing from one Northern service to another at Piccadilly to get to their flight. 2S79 1114 Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y25119/2026-04-04/detailed#allox_id=0 left Sheffield only 3 minutes late at 11.17 delayed by TPE's preceding Cleethorpes - Liverpool 11.11 itself running 3 minutes late at 11.14.
It's very likely that on a Saturday morning Northern's 2 car 195014 would have been very tightly packed - 3 car 195 units are the normal provision on the route and standing is expected on them at weekends.
Confirmation of the likely loading appears at Dore & Totley where the train took 2 minutes instead of the booked 1. I can't say if any intending passengers couldn't get aboard there but that's very possible.
At Grindleford the train stopped for 3 minutes instead of the booked 1, at Hathersage for 2 minutes instead of 1 and extra seconds at both Bamford and Hope. Knowing the route I can picture people, bikes, large cases and rucksacks struggling to get off and back on to get all aboard.
The group wishing to board at Grindleford with luggage couldn't get aboard despite the guards best efforts to persuade everyone to move up. Told that a plane had to be caught all he could offer was an apology and that they should claim delay repay and catch the next train an hour later.
Looking at the departures information the party spotted that the next train was also 2 car. (Taxis are not readily available at rural Grindleford. They may have to come out of Sheffield with consequent time to arrive and cost.) Fearing being left behind again they used initiative, crossed to the other side and caught that train into Sheffield to stay aboard and reached Piccadilly 63 minutes later than planned.
Having completed delay repay claims for all passengers they've all been declined - the computer just sees the train as having arrived only 5 minutes late. Appeals are being submitted.
How does a user support a claim for delay caused by inability to get aboard a train that did run fairly close to the schedule? Online forms don't seem to cover this. Unless the Northern guard recorded the event and it was entered on their system there's no way EMR can verify the overcrowding event without access to that system.
I will illustrate with a specific example but there will be many others every day with multiple variations.
In this case a group had booked online with EMR to go to Manchester Airport from unstaffed Grindleford on Saturday 4th April changing from one Northern service to another at Piccadilly to get to their flight. 2S79 1114 Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y25119/2026-04-04/detailed#allox_id=0 left Sheffield only 3 minutes late at 11.17 delayed by TPE's preceding Cleethorpes - Liverpool 11.11 itself running 3 minutes late at 11.14.
It's very likely that on a Saturday morning Northern's 2 car 195014 would have been very tightly packed - 3 car 195 units are the normal provision on the route and standing is expected on them at weekends.
Confirmation of the likely loading appears at Dore & Totley where the train took 2 minutes instead of the booked 1. I can't say if any intending passengers couldn't get aboard there but that's very possible.
At Grindleford the train stopped for 3 minutes instead of the booked 1, at Hathersage for 2 minutes instead of 1 and extra seconds at both Bamford and Hope. Knowing the route I can picture people, bikes, large cases and rucksacks struggling to get off and back on to get all aboard.
The group wishing to board at Grindleford with luggage couldn't get aboard despite the guards best efforts to persuade everyone to move up. Told that a plane had to be caught all he could offer was an apology and that they should claim delay repay and catch the next train an hour later.
Looking at the departures information the party spotted that the next train was also 2 car. (Taxis are not readily available at rural Grindleford. They may have to come out of Sheffield with consequent time to arrive and cost.) Fearing being left behind again they used initiative, crossed to the other side and caught that train into Sheffield to stay aboard and reached Piccadilly 63 minutes later than planned.
Having completed delay repay claims for all passengers they've all been declined - the computer just sees the train as having arrived only 5 minutes late. Appeals are being submitted.
How does a user support a claim for delay caused by inability to get aboard a train that did run fairly close to the schedule? Online forms don't seem to cover this. Unless the Northern guard recorded the event and it was entered on their system there's no way EMR can verify the overcrowding event without access to that system.
