Delay repay - tickets purchased at different times

[soup6]

Another Query on behalf of another friend. My friend made a return journey from Headcorn to Penzance earlier this week. He went down without problems on a day train on Tuesday and returned on the sleeper the same evening, arriving at Paddington on Wednesday morning. On arrival at Charing Cross there were severe delays and cancellations and he arrived at Headcorn 90 minutes late. As far as intent is concerned, it was always intended that this should be one round-trip journey. However, the order of ticket purchasing was: return Paddington – Penzance (including sleeper one way) then single Headcorn – London terminals and the last leg, London Terminals – Headcorn was not purchased until the Wednesday morning after the sleeper journey had been completed. I know this seems a bit odd but apparently it is cheaper than buying a peak return from Headcorn to London. What is my friend's position in respect of Delay Repay? At first sight, it looks as though he is only entitled to delay repay on the final Charing Cross – Headcorn leg although it is undoubtedly true that only one journey, Headcorn – Penzance and return, was ever contemplated or undertaken.

 

[BJames]

I believe Delay Repay is only due on the final leg of this journey because it is part of a different itinerary.

 

[Trainbike46]

I believe Delay Repay is only due on the final leg of this journey because it is part of a different itinerary.

How so? Tbh I'm not sure what this sentence means. Could you explain?

I thought that delay repay got paid out based on journey, whether ticketed with a single ticket covering the whole journey or a combination of split tickets making up the journey. Why would it matter when the tickets were bought?

 

[miklcct]

He is entitled to compensation of the whole journey provided that he travelled on a valid itinerary and used a valid combination of tickets covering the whole journey.

 

[BJames]

How so? Tbh I'm not sure what this sentence means. Could you explain?

I thought that delay repay got paid out based on journey, whether ticketed with a single ticket covering the whole journey or a combination of split tickets making up the journey. Why would it matter when the tickets were bought?

I saw this as a separate journey. Penzance to Paddington is one journey, completed and no compensation due. Then London Terminals to Headcorn is a separate journey.

Had the journey been booked e.g. through Trainsplit, an itinerary would have been offered Penzance-Headcorn, permitting cross-London transfer. This through journey would thus be Penzance to Headcorn, and therefore eligible for Delay Repay, but as booked by the OP, it was two journeys: Penzance to Paddington, and London to Headcorn. If I have misunderstood what the OP is asking then fair enough but this is part of the benefit of booking through somewhere like Trainsplit.

 

[Trainbike46]

I saw this as a separate journey. Penzance to Paddington is one journey, completed and no compensation due. Then London Terminals to Headcorn is a separate journey.

Had the journey been booked e.g. through Trainsplit, an itinerary would have been offered Penzance-Headcorn, permitting cross-London transfer. This through journey would thus be Penzance to Headcorn, and therefore eligible for Delay Repay, but as booked by the OP, it was two journeys: Penzance to Paddington, and London to Headcorn. If I have misunderstood what the OP is asking then fair enough but this is part of the benefit of booking through somewhere like Trainsplit.

You don't have to book a through journey through trainsplit, or even include a cross-london transfer, you're perfectly eligible to pay for your travel between terminals separately, or to walk it (as long as you allow for the minimum connection times, and ensure you are at your second terminal in good time). for it to be considered a single journey. Having an itinerary does of course make it easier to prove your intention to make a through journey, but is, as I understand it, not essential.

GA appears to agree on this, recently I made a journey Bath-Norwich, which was ticketed as Bath-Paddington and Liverpool street-Norwich. I paid for the Paddington-Liverpool street transfer using Oyster. I did not have a formal itinerary for the full journey, but I did ensure it followed minimum connection times. My second train was cancelled, and GA paid out delay repay based on the full cost of the Bath-Norwich train fares. This seems very similar to the OPs case, with the main difference being that both my trains were booked as advance fares, but I don't see how that would make a difference

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Can a valid claim still be made by the OP's friend noting that delays and disruption were reportedly already happening at Charing Cross prior to their arrival at this location and presumably their purchase of additional ticket(s) for onward travel to Headcorn?

Seems that in these particular circumstances that the OP's friend didn't ever have a valid through itinerary from Penzance to Headcorn and is arguably attempting to game the system to maximise their Delay Repay claim.

 

[Trainbike46]

If they didn't buy the London-Headcorn ticket until the delay was known that would change things, specifically because claiming delay repay would look a lot like an attempt at fraud.

Is it true that 2 anytime singles can be cheaper than an open return, because that also seems rather unlikely

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2022 ==

Checking BRfares:
-Offpeak return (route not HS1): £30.50
-Anytime day single (route not HS1): £26.90
-Super off-peak day single (route not HS1): £21.50
there doesn't appear to be an anytime return, if that was required given the time of travel

 

[XAM2175]

So long as the time allowed between Paddington and Charing Cross exceeded the Minimum Connection Time (18 minutes between 0700 and 1900, 23 minutes 0529-0659 and 1901-2359), and they had purchased both of the legs of the journey before the delays were known, then I would be satisfied that Penzance to Headcorn was a single journey and thus a fair Delay Repay claim.

 

[AlterEgo]

So long as the time allowed between Paddington and Charing Cross exceeded the Minimum Connection Time (18 minutes between 0700 and 1900, 23 minutes 0529-0659 and 1901-2359), and they had purchased both of the legs of the journey before the delays were known, then I would be satisfied that Penzance to Headcorn was a single journey and thus a fair Delay Repay claim.

I agree with this analysis. The intention of the initial purchases is academic.

 

[soup6]

Thanks for all the advice. I tend To agree with MCR that claiming delay repay for the whole journey Headcorn – Penzance return does look horribly like gaming the system, even if it isn't in this case. It would be easy enough to check whether there were delays out of a London terminal having arrived at Paddington and then to go to that terminal and buy a onward ticket with the express intent of claiming delay repay for the undelayed legs. I will check whether the Charing Cross – Headcorn ticket was bought before any delays were known about by the traveller, although I'm fairly sure that they would have been known about by South-eastern at the time the ticket was bought. If the ticket was bought at Paddington (unlikely) then that would strengthen the traveller's case. He had no intention of attempting to claim delay repay for the whole journey until I mentioned it but I thought he had bought two return tickets. I don't think it is possible to buy tickets for the sleeper packages online for onward destinations – they have to be to Paddington. I think, with reference to the point raised by Trainbike46, that two tickets are cheaper for the Headcorn – Charing Cross – Headcorn journey than a return given that the inbound journey was off-peak and the outbound journey was peak.

 

[Hadders]

How did the OP get from Paddington to Charing Cross, or more to the point what ticket did they use?

I would submit the claim but be prepared to appeal it following an initial rejection.

 

[XAM2175]

I will check whether the Charing Cross – Headcorn ticket was bought before any delays were known about by the traveller, although I'm fairly sure that they would have been known about by South-eastern at the time the ticket was bought. If the ticket was bought at Paddington (unlikely) then that would strengthen the traveller's case.

Strictly speaking, the ticket should have been purchased before the delays occurred in order to be unquestionably valid for DR. Buying the ticket after the delays were known - but in ignorance of them - is much less clear, and I would lean towards interpreting it as the passenger not having performed adequate diligence.

 

[Birmingham]

Strictly speaking, the ticket should have been purchased before the delays occurred in order to be unquestionably valid for DR. Buying the ticket after the delays were known - but in ignorance of them - is much less clear, and I would lean towards interpreting it as the passenger not having performed adequate diligence.

I suppose it depends whether 'after the delays were known' means '...[by the railway]' or '...[by the customer]'.

 

[Haywain]

I suppose it depends whether 'after the delays were known' means '...[by the railway]' or '...[by the customer]'.

I think it is quite clear it should be the latter. Even when 'the railway' is aware of disruption it just isn't possible to shut off all ticket retailing outlets. And, in the early stages while details are still being communicated out, even staffed sales points may not be aware of the situation.

 

[etr221]

One question I would ask is when were the original tickets London-Penzance and Headcorn-London bought; and when could the London-Headcorn ticket have been bought? Could - in the desired format - it have been bought in advance? (and is the reason the Headcorn-London tickets were singles that a multi-day return was not available?)