Delay Repay rejected by Southern

[brightonbususe]

I put in a claim to Southern after arriving an hour late on a service from Polegate to Chirk. The Southern service arrived late and progressively got later due to speed restrictions following the Lewes derailment meaning missed connections and an arrival one hour late.

The claim was rejected because: We've checked the journey you have claimed for and our records show that the original delay was caused by another train operator Transport for Wales. We're unable to compensate for delays caused by another train operator, so please be advised that you'll need to make a claim with them directly.

I'm just posting as a santity check to make sure I'm not actually going mad and that the problem was actually the Southern service being delayed on the first leg? I looked at a website that showed train running times and it seems to support my claim (not sure if the experts here have better resources?). There doesn't seem to be any clear means to appeal, so I assume if I am correct, I have to go through their complaints procedure? Any advice welcome.

Planned itinerary for 3rd September 2026:

1. Depart Polegate (Southern service) at 10:12, arrive London Victoria at 11:36
2. London Underground to London Euston
3. Depart London Euston (Avanti West Coast service) at 12:16, arrive Birmingham New Street at 13:48
4. Depart Birmingham New Street (Transport For Wales service) at 14:22, arrive at Shrewsbury at 15:21
5. Depart Shewsbury at 15:27 (Transport For Wales service), arrive at Chirk at 15:50

In reality:

• Service from Polegate (1) arrived late (11:59) and got progressively later throughout the journey
• Despite a good run across London, we missed our connection (3) from London Euston
• We got the next available Avanti and changed onto the first available Transport For Wales service (scheduled for an hour after the one we were going to get, which was held by approx 10 minutes due to a delay on another connecting service)
• We eventually arrived in Chirk approximately 1 hour late

If it makes any difference, tickets were purchased through this forum and I put all legs into the Delay Repay form.

 

[Watershed]

I put in a claim to Southern after arriving an hour late on a service from Polegate to Chirk. The Southern service arrived late and progressively got later due to speed restrictions following the Lewes derailment meaning missed connections and an arrival one hour late.

The claim was rejected because: We've checked the journey you have claimed for and our records show that the original delay was caused by another train operator Transport for Wales. We're unable to compensate for delays caused by another train operator, so please be advised that you'll need to make a claim with them directly.

I'm just posting as a santity check to make sure I'm not actually going mad and that the problem was actually the Southern service being delayed on the first leg? I looked at a website that showed train running times and it seems to support my claim (not sure if the experts here have better resources?). There doesn't seem to be any clear means to appeal, so I assume if I am correct, I have to go through their complaints procedure? Any advice welcome.

Planned itinerary for 3rd September 2026:

1. Depart Polegate (Southern service) at 10:12, arrive London Victoria at 11:36
2. London Underground to London Euston
3. Depart London Euston (Avanti West Coast service) at 12:16, arrive Birmingham New Street at 13:48
4. Depart Birmingham New Street (Transport For Wales service) at 14:22, arrive at Shrewsbury at 15:21
5. Depart Shewsbury at 15:27 (Transport For Wales service), arrive at Chirk at 15:50

In reality:

• Service from Polegate (1) arrived late and got progressively later throughout the journey
• Despite a good run across London, we missed our connection (3) from London Euston
• We got the next available Avanti and changed onto the first available Transport For Wales service (scheduled for an hour after the one we were going to get, which was held by approx 10 minutes due to a delay on another connecting service)
• We eventually arrived in Chirk approximately 1 hour late

If it makes any difference, tickets were purchased through this forum and I put all legs into the Delay Repay form.

It's funny how a lot of operators' Delay Repay systems seem keen on batting about the responsibility for delays. The generally understood principle for journeys where multiple trains are disrupted, is that it is the first operator whose disruption made a material difference to the journey (i.e. resulted in a connection being missed) that is liable.

In this situation it looks like the software has looked no further than seeing that the 14:22 from Birmingham New Street arrived at Shrewsbury at 15:25, 4 minutes late, meaning the minimum connection time was no longer met: https://recenttraintimes.co.uk/Home/Service?ServiceId=147957302|147961875

But of course this ignores the above principle and the fact that you were never on the 14:22 because you missed it due to GTR's late-running.

Even if GTR were correct that TfW were liable, they would still be legally required to forward on your claim to TfW under condition 32.1 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT). Simply refusing your claim and leaving it up to you to submit a new claim with the operator they claim is liable - which you would be out of time to bring if you didn't act extremely quickly - is not good enough.

I would therefore submit a complaint pointing out these two things. I wouldn't expect a quick reply either, they seem to have quite a backlog at the moment.

 

[Haywain]

I would suggest phoning them or contacting them on social media, which often yields quicker results than an email.

 

[brightonbususe]

This is a fantastic response thank you @Watershed - it gives me a clear line of response to use and reinforces what I was thinking. Thanks again. And thanks also to @Haywain as well, that's good to know.

 

[800002]

Not to get too involved here, but only seeing part of the equation (sorry).

There is a minimum transfer / connection time between Victoria and Euston.
You don't say how late you were into Victoria.

With the actual arrival time into Victoria, did you still have the minimum connection time to the departure from Euston?

Acknowledgement to tbe above, in the forwarding of the claim, and not everyone is able to make the minimum connection time on a good day - would it be possible for you to have arrived Victoria with 'enough' time to get to Euston to make the original connection?

 

[Haywain]

With the actual arrival time into Victoria, did you still have the minimum connection time to the departure from Euston?

The train arrived in Victoria at 11:59, so making a 12:16 departure from Euston is completely unrealistic.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 18:32 ==

would it be possible for you to have arrived Victoria with 'enough' time to get to Euston to make the original connection?

As above, not a realistic chance. GTR have no grounds for declining the claim.

 

[800002]

The train arrived in Victoria at 11:59, so making a 12:16 departure from Euston is completely unrealistic.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 18:32 ==


As above, not a realistic chance. GTR have no grounds for declining the claim.

Answered in the first part. (Although I can't remember the connection time between the two, I believe it's 15 minutes at each end plus transit on tbe tube, so yes - unachievable).

 

[brightonbususe]

Apologies for missing that information @800002 and thanks for filling in the gaps Haywain - have updated the OP just in case anybody else has advice or refers to this post in future. In the end despite our speed run through the Tube, we missed our connection by just a few minutes.

 

[800002]

Apologies for missing that information @800002 and thanks for filling in the gaps Haywain - have updated the OP just in case anybody else has advice or refers to this post in future. In the end despite our speed run through the Tube, we missed our connection by just a few minutes.

Quite okay.
It's rough when that happens... quite stressful.

 

[Mike99]

What is the minimum connection time between London Victoria and London Euston? The original itinerary was to arrived London Victoria at 11:36 and departure from Euston at 12:16

 

[800002]

39 minutes, I believe.
15 at London Victoria,
15 at London Euston,
9 transfer between the two, for the arrival time quoted.

Almost the minimum possible.

Available here:

BR Times - Train Times & Station Platform Finder

Alternative journey planner featuring full schedule details including platforms and connection times, for every passenger train on the National Rail network.

www.brtimes.com

 

[Farang]

You've followed exactly the procedure Southern asked you to and they still can't get it right!

https://www.southernrailway.com/help-and-support/delay-repay-compensation

 

[marshlinker]

I dont have access to the actual train running but I can sort of understand where Southern are coming from here. You would have missed the 12.16 but if everything north of London was running to time the 12.40 Avanti service to Edinburgh via Birmingham (fast to Coventry) would have comfortably connected with your Tfw service from either International, New Street or Wolverhampton leaving you with the same connection at Shrewsbury

 

[800002]

Except,
Southern was the first operator to delay, which impacted on the planned literary.
The minimum connection time between legs 1 and 2 were broken.

Southern is responsible to the whole delay incurred for the journey.

 

[Haywain]

I dont have access to the actual train running but I can sort of understand where Southern are coming from here. You would have missed the 12.16 but if everything north of London was running to time the 12.40 Avanti service to Edinburgh via Birmingham (fast to Coventry) would have comfortably connected with your Tfw service from either International, New Street or Wolverhampton leaving you with the same connection at Shrewsbury

Even if that were relevant, Southern are still wrong as it would be down to Avanti that the connection was missed. However, I can safely say that Avanti would not accept responsibility for that.