Delay Repay question - which TOC and how much?

[FalkirkBairn]

Apologies for a very specific question.

I have a set of split Advance singles from Falkirk to Nottingham and have been sufficiently delayed to claim for Delay Repay.

My tickets are

Falkirk to Dunbar (on a timed XC train from Edinburgh but a first connwction train on ScotRail)
Dunbar to Darlington (same XC train)
Darlington to York (same XC train)
York to Chesterfield (same XC train - this was delayed enough to miss the Northern connection )
Chesterfield to Nottingham (Northern)

So only three trains but five tickets and three TOCs.

I asked to endorse my ticket at Chesterfield to use an East Midlands service and was told absolutely not. As a result I chose to purchase a new Anytime single to avoid further delay.

So multiple questions

1- do I actually have a claim if I don't complete my full itinerary? Do I need to travel on my Northern advance and just accept a longer delay?
2-, how do I measure my delay?
I suspect I claim from my itinerary but does my earlier train cause any issues?
3 - Do I claim from Cross Country or Northern or Scotrail? I think XC as that's my first ticket but nor sure?

4- Really interesting different service from EMT too. Ticket office chose not to endorse my ticket (which is their perogative) but also told me that my split ticket was me taking a risk and that I had no claim. On train guard from EMT was brilliant. Confirmed that split tickets still equal one journey, gave me the email to send my comments in and even told me that RDG have today endorsed split ticketing!

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

 

[30907]

1. I don't think you can claim on the basis of the Northern Advance as you didn't use it and so weren't delayed by an hour.
2. However, you do have a valid claim IMO - be honest and use the actual arrival time at Nottingham and state that you completed the journey on the EMT service because of the delay.
(I wondered about including the Anytime not the Northern Advance in the claim, but it will be dated/timed so might well look suspicious; if you want to take that route I would use e-mail not an online claim form. What do others think?)
3. Claim from XC - that's the easy bit: they caused your delay.

 

[yorkie]

Apologies for a very specific question.

I have a set of split Advance singles from Falkirk to Nottingham and have been sufficiently delayed to claim for Delay Repay.

My tickets are

Falkirk to Dunbar (on a timed XC train from Edinburgh but a first connwction train on ScotRail)
Dunbar to Darlington (same XC train)
Darlington to York (same XC train)
York to Chesterfield (same XC train - this was delayed enough to miss the Northern connection )
Chesterfield to Nottingham (Northern)

So only three trains but five tickets and three TOCs.

I asked to endorse my ticket at Chesterfield to use an East Midlands service and was told absolutely not.

That's a shame; had you done so then it would have been clear what your Delay Repay entitlement would have been and there would have been no further complication of trying to get a refund for an unused ticket.

As a result I chose to purchase a new Anytime single to avoid further delay.

This makes it potentially very complicated but I would like more information before I advise.

So multiple questions

1- do I actually have a claim if I don't complete my full itinerary? Do I need to travel on my Northern advance and just accept a longer delay?
2-, how do I measure my delay?
I suspect I claim from my itinerary but does my earlier train cause any issues?
3 - Do I claim from Cross Country or Northern or Scotrail? I think XC as that's my first ticket but nor sure?

What was your booked itinerary? Can you paste the booked itinerary, along with the actual timings, in an easy to read format please?

Who did you buy the tickets from? was it all one transaction / one journey?

4- Really interesting different service from EMT too. Ticket office chose not to endorse my ticket (which is their perogative)

For trains that have on-board staff, I would always ask the staff in this circumstance.

but also told me that my split ticket was me taking a risk and that I had no claim.

Utter nonsense. However this is the sort of nonsense I have to come to expect from some ticket office staff.

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-mean-you-need-to-pay-again-mythbuster.188155 ; the rights are exactly the same as if a through ticket were held that carried the same restrictions.

On train guard from EMT was brilliant.

Yes on board staff tend to be better at ticketing matters than ticket office staff, on average.

Confirmed that split tickets still equal one journey

This is correct

gave me the email to send my comments in and even told me that RDG have today endorsed split ticketing!

It was endorsed many many years ago but as long as they know, that's the main thing.

 

[gray1404]

Surely it would be a fee free refund from the retailer of the Northern Advances due to disruption causing you to miss the train and thus the tickets unused. Then, delay repay on the remainder of the tickets, including the Anytime Single, from Cross Country (as the TOC which caused the delay) based on the actual arrival time in Nottingham.

 

[yorkie]

Surely it would be a fee free refund from the retailer of the Northern Advances due to disruption causing you to miss the train and thus the tickets unused. Then, delay repay on the remainder of the tickets, including the Anytime Single, from Cross Country (as the TOC which caused the delay) based on the actual arrival time in Nottingham.

I was thinking that

Though it's not entirely clear that there is any entitlement to DR on the final ticket; there arguably wouldn't normally be (as you are required to buy all tickets for the entire journey at the first opportunity), though under the specific circumstances of only buying the additional ticket to avoid a further delay to the journey to Nottingham, I can see a reasonable case for this.

I really would strongly recommend not purchasing any additional tickets though because it makes an otherwise straightforward claim really complicated, and increases the burden of claiming, where multiple companies are involved.

 

[Haywain]

3 - Do I claim from Cross Country or Northern or Scotrail? I think XC as that's my first ticket but nor sure?

Very simple: Scotrail didn’t delay you and you didn’t even travel with Northern, so it’s very clear that only XC could possibly bear responsibility for any delay.

 

[FalkirkBairn]

Itinerary was

Falkirk to Edinburgh 1225
Edinburgh to Chesterfield 1309
Chesterfield to Nottingham 1722

The Edinburgh train arrives at around 1725 so after the connection.

The subsequent Northern train was 1822 and was itself late. Had I waited for it, I would have arrived about 65 mins late.

I do not expect my EMT ticket to be refunded.
However I do expect some delay repay. Hence my questions.

 

[yorkie]

What date was this?

Or, what time did the EMR service arrive into Nottingham?

If you are not going to obtain any refunds, then you could submit a photograph showing tickets to XC along with an explanation of your original itinerary, the fact you were going to be delayed by 65+ minutes and chose to buy another ticket to keep your delay down to 30+ minutes, and let them decide what action to take.

They might, for example, take the view of compensating you for the tickets actually used based on the actual delay experienced (ie. 50%); this would be a pragmatic approach.

Or they may take the view that you should be compensated based on the original tickets held and the delay you would have experienced had you used them (100%); this could be argued to be fair on the basis that you occurred additional cost, which you didn't have to do, and shouldn't be penalised for making that choice, however I can't see any entitlement to this as you didn't actually experience that delay, but there isn't anything to stop XC taking a pragmatic approach and applying discretion providing you are honest about the situation.

Unfortunately as this will no doubt be a complex case, it could cause you to have to wait longer for compensation to be paid.

 

[FalkirkBairn]

Thanks to all for assistance.

Date travelled was yesterday Saturday 11th January.

I will write to XC and see what they choose. I'm in no rush for a refund so hopefully it will just be a case of a couple of emails swopped.