Delay repay query

[The_Train]

I logged a delay repay claim with LNR at the weekend against the following planned schedule and actual schedule for Saturday:

Planned schedule:
Derby (17:38) - Tamworth (18:01) - XC
Tamworth (18:08) - Stafford (18:30) - LNR

Actual timings:
Derby (17:43) - Tamworth (18:05) - XC
Tamworth (18:31) - Stafford (18:55) - LNR

I incurred a 25 minute delay with LNR and thought it would be an open and shut case when I raised a delay repay claim with them.
However, it was rejected and they advised the following:

"We have been unable to approve your claim as the train that delayed your journey was not one of ours. The train was operated by CrossCountry. As they operated the first delayed service, they are responsible for processing your claim."

Are LNR somehow claiming that because I arrived late into Tamworth and didn't (technically) meet the minimum connection time that it is the fault of XC that the LNR service left Euston 13 late, Milton Keynes 20 late, arrived at Tamworth 22 late and 24 mins after I arrived into Tamworth on the XC and then lost a further 5 minutes along the Trent Valley stations and caused me to arrive home late?

As the blame game was underway, I thought I would test the social media team of each TOC involved by sending them the same message detailing the above and asking whether it was them I should claim with or the other TOC. Strangely both LNR and XC advised (on twitter) it was themselves at fault and so I should claim through them, with XC adding that any claim with them would be rejected as their minimum delay is 30 mins so I might be better just claiming against Tamworth to Stafford through LNR.

I have appealed it with LNR on the grounds that it was clearly their service that caused my delay - I presume I am right to do this in this situation or should I just accept I get nothing for the Derby-Tamworth leg and just raise a claim against the Tamworth-Stafford leg?

(Sorry if this is the wrong forum - it feels like it should be in disputes but isn't a dispute on the level that some people find themselves in haha. Feel free to move it if you wish)

 

[yorkie]

As you made the connection, it is clearly West Midlands Trains (who operate trains branded WMR & LNR) who are liable, not XC.

Don't take no for an answer; ask if you are in deadlock and if they say yes, you can go to the Rail Ombudsman

Rail Ombudsman

The Rail Ombudsman is an independent, not-for-profit organisation. We offer a free, expert service to help sort out unresolved customer complaints about Service Providers within the rail industry.

www.railombudsman.org

It will cost WMT money for this matter to be investigated by the Ombudsman, so I hope that one of the many good people at WMT reads this and realises someone has made a mistake, and rectifies it so that you don't have to take this step.

 

[The_Train]

As you made the connection, it is clearly West Midlands Trains (who operate trains branded WMR & LNR) who are liable, not XC.

Don't take no for an answer; ask if you are in deadlock and if they say yes, you can go to the Rail Ombudsman

Thanks Yorkie - that is what I had in mind and suspected the initial rejection may have been an automated check. My appeal is in so I will update when I have anything back on that one.

One that is similar but slightly different occurred yesterday evening with the following timings:

Planned:
Derby (19:40) - Tamworth (20:02)
Tamworth (20:08) - Stafford (20:30)

Actual:
Derby (19:46) - Tamworth (20:08)
Tamworth (20:35) - Stafford (20:59)

So the difference with this one being that had the LNR service ran to time, I wouldn't have made the connection at Tamworth owing to the XC delay. However, I did because the LNR service was 27 late into Tamworth and then got me into Stafford 29 down.

So would this one fall onto XC and therefore mean I cannot claim on them from Derby because it doesn't meet their min 30 minute delay for delay repay and I could only claim on the Tamworth-Stafford leg with LNR? Or can I still claim onto LNR because their delayed service allowed me to still meet my planned connecting service?

 

[yorkie]

Thanks Yorkie - that is what I had in mind and suspected the initial rejection may have been an automated check. My appeal is in so I will update when I have anything back on that one.

One that is similar but slightly different occurred yesterday evening with the following timings:

Planned:
Derby (19:40) - Tamworth (20:02)
Tamworth (20:08) - Stafford (20:30)

Actual:
Derby (19:46) - Tamworth (20:08)
Tamworth (20:35) - Stafford (20:59)

So the difference with this one being that had the LNR service ran to time, I wouldn't have made the connection at Tamworth owing to the XC delay. However, I did because the LNR service was 27 late into Tamworth and then got me into Stafford 29 down.

So would this one fall onto XC and therefore mean I cannot claim on them from Derby because it doesn't meet their min 30 minute delay for delay repay and I could only claim on the Tamworth-Stafford leg with LNR? Or can I still claim onto LNR because their delayed service allowed me to still meet my planned connecting service?

Again, you made the connection onto West Midlands Trains, so WMT are liable for the delay.

Had you missed the connection, XC would have been liable for the delay that would have resulted in you taking the next available services (which may have been via Birmingham or waiting for the next hourly service at Tamworth; the latter would typically qualify you for 100% DR).

However, a claim is based on what actually happened, not what could have theoretically happened.

 

[The_Train]

Again, you made the connection onto West Midlands Trains, so WMT are liable for the delay.

Had you missed the connection, XC would have been liable for the delay that would have resulted in you taking the next available services (which may have been via Birmingham or waiting for the next hourly service at Tamworth; the latter would typically qualify you for 100% DR).

However, a claim is based on what actually happened, not what could have theoretically happened.

Really appreciate the help with this. I will raise the claim for yesterday's delay with LNR as well then

 

[The_Train]

After having waited since the 4th August, when I lodged my appeals on both claims, and having to phone the customer relations team at LNR today, they have now accepted both claims. Probably cost me more to phone them than I am getting back but it feels like a moral victory

Thanks for the advice @yorkie