Delay repay - partially abandoned journey

[43066]

Just a question on behalf of a friend, who travelled from Stratford International to Winchelsea on an off off peak return a couple of weekends ago.

She and the friend she was with both had bikes and were unable to board the Southern service from Ashford to Winchelsea due to significant overcrowding so, rather than waiting an hour for the next service, ended up cycling the rest of the way instead.

She has tried to claim delay repay but this has been rejected, no doubt because the train they had attempted to board ran on time.

Is there anything that can be claimed in this situation?

The guard suggested she claim but suggested not mentioning the bikes - I assume because there are restrictions on carrying them on some or all of the route.

Ta in advance.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

You can't claim delay repay for an abandoned journey. It's a (potentially partial) refund without fee. I'd send this type of situation in an email to customer relations and explain everything and let them work it out

If the service was advertised as not allowing bikes etc - no entitlement - as presumably they'd have been able to travel otherwise. This assumes it was advertised/published somewhere rather than just a one-off decision not to allow bikes. You'd have to check what, if any, restrictions applied.

 

[Benjwri]

You can't claim delay repay for an abandoned journey. It's a (potentially partial) refund without fee. I'd send this type of situation in an email to customer relations and explain everything and let them work it out

If the service was advertised as not allowing bikes etc - no entitlement - as presumably they'd have been able to travel otherwise. This assumes it was advertised/published somewhere rather than just a one-off decision not to allow bikes. You'd have to check what, if any, restrictions applied.

There are no restrictions on bikes between Ashford and Winchelsea at any time.

 

[Haywain]

There are no restrictions on bikes between Ashford and Winchelsea at any time.

Other than the availability of space.

 

[43066]

You can't claim delay repay for an abandoned journey. It's a (potentially partial) refund without fee. I'd send this type of situation in an email to customer relations and explain everything and let them work it out

If the service was advertised as not allowing bikes etc - no entitlement - as presumably they'd have been able to travel otherwise. This assumes it was advertised/published somewhere rather than just a one-off decision not to allow bikes. You'd have to check what, if any, restrictions applied.

Thanks, I suspected that was the case re. delay repay. The bit not computing was what the guard had said. However:

There are no restrictions on bikes between Ashford and Winchelsea at any time.

A search of the Southern website revealed this:

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can't claim delay repay for an abandoned journey.

You can claim it if you ended short, but it's based on any delay to the journey you actually made, not the one you theoretically could have done. Thus in this specific case it's not applicable, but there are cases similar to this where it might be.

 

[43066]

You can claim it if you ended short, but it's based on any delay to the journey you actually made, not the one you theoretically could have done. Thus in this specific case it's not applicable, but there are cases similar to this where it might be.

They were on time to Ashford but decided to cycle the rest of the way. The guard to be fair was helping them out by warning them not to mention the bikes, as I imagine there was a summer weekend restriction in place, as per the website.

Makes sense considering the tiny and infrequent trains over that particular route!

 

[thejuggler]

Claim a refund for abandoned journey.

Moderator note: this is not correct advice

 

[Haywain]

Claim a refund for abandoned journey.

That (now) requires that they return to their origin station. That may not seem fair but it's what the NRCoT says.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That (now) requires that they return to their origin station. That may not seem fair but it's what the NRCoT says.

It would seem fair that it was refunded down to what they actually did, which customer services might be reasonable about. I've had that done at a booking office en route when a cancellation rendered the journey worthless but I decided, rather than bailing out and going home, to stop somewhere else en route for the day instead.

 

[paul1609]

Just to say that in practice you will be unable to board the Marshlink trains on a Saturday morning in the school holidays with a cycle at Ashford. The trains are always standing room only and often have to leave passengers behind. Basically there's a huge influx of people traveling to the Romney Marsh and Winchelsea caravan parks that use Rye as the Railhead. As a consequence they also have huge amounts of luggage. It was inevitable with the loss of the 4 car 171s to EMR. Probably the most sensible solution would be for Southern to ban cycles from the sat morning trains.

 

[nwales58]

NRCoT seems, to me, clear.

If you have a reservation for the bike condition 29 refunds kick in.

Therefore where reservations are not possible or you do not have a bike reservation you are on your own.

That leaves some very unfair situations such as advances, missed connections, unplanned rail replacement buses, last train of the day, etc, NRCoT does not understand bad weather and cycling, but that's it.

I do care about this as I ride bikes myself, but except where I have bike reservations for every leg of the journey I plan for possibly not being able to get on (not fun when your local services are 2h or 3h interval) or riding that leg.

 

[miklcct]

That (now) requires that they return to their origin station. That may not seem fair but it's what the NRCoT says.

From a thread last year:

You have the option to go home in the NRCoT, but it's not a requirement.

These are conflicting information, which one is true?

 

[redreni]

I'm not entirely clear from reading post #1 if the train had capacity for two more passengers but not for the bikes (which would appear to mean it's tough luck), or if it was too full to board, regardless of the bikes?

If it was too full to board regardless of the bikes then I would have thought an application for a partial refund would be in order. It would be dishonest not to mention the bikes if they were the reason they couldn't board the train, but if they couldn't have boarded the train anyway then I don't think the bikes are even relevant.

 

[Haywain]

A partial refund is all very well but it would only be £3.20 if the ticket held is a day return.

 

[pelli]

That (now) requires that they return to their origin station. That may not seem fair but it's what the NRCoT says.

From a thread last year:

You have the option to go home in the NRCoT, but it's not a requirement.

These are conflicting information, which one is true?

The National Rail Conditions of Travel was updated in April this year. That's likely what Haywain's "(now)" means - it used to not be required, but now it is. We had a thread on the subject:

3. There is also some changes to the wording of getting a refund in the event that you start a journey and have to abandon it. Now there appears to be a requirement that you must return to the point of origin in order to claim a refund (Condition 30.1): "You are also entitled to a refund under these Conditions if you begin your journey but are unable to complete it due to a delay to, or cancellation of your service and you return to your point of origin." Previously there was no explicit requirement it simply said that you could return to your point of origin and still claim a refund.

The full condition 30.1 now states:

30.1 Conditions 30.1 - 30.4 cover all Tickets other than Season Tickets.
You may return an unused Ticket or Tickets to the original retailer or Train Company
from whom it was/they were purchased, where you will be given a full refund with no
administration fee charged, if you decide not to travel because the train you intended
to use is:
• cancelled, or
• delayed, or
• rescheduled after you have purchased a Ticket or Tickets, or
• your reservation will not be honoured
You are also entitled to a refund under these Conditions if you begin your journey but are
unable to complete it due to a delay to, or cancellation of your service and you return to
your point of origin.

 

[43066]

I'm not entirely clear from reading post #1 if the train had capacity for two more passengers but not for the bikes (which would appear to mean it's tough luck), or if it was too full to board, regardless of the bikes?

If it was too full to board regardless of the bikes then I would have thought an application for a partial refund would be in order. It would be dishonest not to mention the bikes if they were the reason they couldn't board the train, but if they couldn't have boarded the train anyway then I don't think the bikes are even relevant.

The bikes were the issue - they could have squeezed on otherwise (two petite women) but too many buggies and goodness knows what else in the way.

A partial refund is all very well but it would only be £3.20 if the ticket held is a day return.

Is that based on just refunding the unused element? Almost certainly not worth it. I’ve advised her just to send the complaint to customer services, but managed expectations.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Apparently working for the railway in an operational role means I’m automatically a ticketing guru in the eyes of some (despite the fact I’ve not bought “regular” tickets for a decade or so!) hence it’s useful to have recourse to this forum!

 

[Haywain]

Is that based on just refunding the unused element?

That's right.