Delay Repay overpayments - an update

[Bletchleyite]

So I said I'd stop posting about these but there is a bit of an update. Recently I had a particularly high one that I didn't feel right about keeping or charitably donating, this was TPE so I contacted their customer services.

Unlike previously on other TOCs when such approaches had been ignored, they responded quite quickly with an invoice (in email form) and bank details to send the overpayment to. This has been paid.

Thus, if it's TPE and this happens to you, you may (or may not) wish to let this influence what action you take in response - if you do see fit to pay it back then TPE at least are able to receive the money back if you approach them about it.

If only they'd just fix the software to stop overpaying - it doesn't strike me as a hard fix

 

[185143]

Has it ever been decided if the passenger has an obligation to report delay repay overpayments?

Interesting to hear at least one TOC does indeed have a mechanism to take them back, suggests it probably happens quite a bit.

It's not the same, but I did once report to Avanti that I'd bought a cokes and a beer from the onboard shop, only noticing after I'd got off that I'd been charged for two cokes. Mainly raised it as I didn't want the shop staff getting in any kind of trouble. They pretty much told me to enjoy the cheap round and leave it at that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has it ever been decided if the passenger has an obligation to report delay repay overpayments?

It's an interesting question. I don't think theres's anything railway specific about it, but it could be argued to be "theft by finding" to keep it if you knew you weren't entitled to it. Perhaps similar to if you've been transferred money in error? Though in that case I don't think there's any obligation to alert anyone to it, just to pay it back if it is requested?

I reckon it happens a lot via the portal TPE uses (which I think is used by all the FirstGroup/ex FirstGroup TOCs). It seems, in the event of a cancellation, the software assumes you travelled on the original itinerary to the point where you "got stuck" and then awaited the next direct TPE train, even if that was the next day, rather than partly mitigating the delay by entirely re-routeing on a flexible ticket or with permission, or by travelling earlier. Goodness only knows why it doesn't just pay the lower of what you asked for and what they think it is given that most people are honest and won't state a 2 hour delay when it was only 30 minutes. It must be costing them a fair bit.

It'd not be hard with a SQL database to run a query to identify all the cases where this has happened, but then the cost of following up might exceed what they'd get back, particularly as some people would say "so sue me" and not pay it back, or assume the request was a scam and ignore it.

I've had a fair few of these from various TOCs, but usually smallish sums not really worth my time to chase up let alone theirs. This one was quite big so I thought it probably fair that it should be reported.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Though in that case I don't think there's any obligation to alert anyone to it, just to pay it back if it is requested?

Say (for example) Northern over-estimated the delay time and sent more complementary tickets than were actually due, how would they even request that back (once they had been used)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Say (for example) Northern over-estimated the delay time and sent more complementary tickets than were actually due, how would they even request that back (once they had been used)?

Well, they could ask (e.g. for you to send them a picture of one torn in half) but it's certainly harder than money which can be transferred back the same way it arrived.

 

[Gaelan]

It'd not be hard with a SQL database to run a query to identify all the cases where this has happened, but then the cost of following up might exceed what they'd get back, particularly as some people would say "so sue me" and not pay it back, or assume the request was a scam and ignore it.

It's also just terrible customer service. It might make sense to reduce overpayments in the first instance (though equally I can see the argument that they'd prefer to overpay a few passengers rather than spend the time/wages to manually check more claims, as long as it doesn't put the passenger in an uncomfortable position), but trying to claim back money from passengers - all of whom did genuinely suffer a disrupted journey - would be a terrible look.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's also just terrible customer service. It might make sense to reduce overpayments in the first instance (though equally I can see the argument that they'd rather overpay a few passengers rather than spend the time/wages to manually check more claims, as long as it doesn't put the passenger in an uncomfortable position), but trying to claim back money from passengers - all of whom did genuinely suffer a disrupted journey - would be a terrible look.

Yes, true (a bit like it's perhaps best not to do revenue checks on severely delayed trains). I am in some ways surprised they didn't just say to keep it on that sort of basis - but it must be happening so much that it's actually costing them a fortune, and with TPE being a DfT TOC now we know they are looking after the pennies as it were!

 

[ainsworth74]

I am in some ways surprised they didn't just say to keep it on that sort of basis - but it must be happening so much that it's actually costing them a fortune, and with TPE being a DfT TOC now we know they are looking after the pennies as it were!

That would depend on if the underpayments and incorrect refusals are more or less than the overpayments!

I must admit I'd have a whole lot more sympathy to TOCs who are making overpayments if their systems weren't also denying the passenger compensation they're entitled to...

 

[Plagiomnium]

I had the same thing recently with an overpaid delay repay claim from TPE. I was a bit surprised they wanted the money back, since it was only a small amount (I thought I was being over-cautious telling them about it!), but if they do this a lot and have a standard process for it then it makes a bit more sense.

I'm also not sure why mine was overpaid to begin with - it was a straightforward late arrival on a single-leg journey, nothing involving cancellations or catching a different train.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Recently I had a particularly high one that I didn't feel right about keeping or charitably donating, this was TPE so I contacted their customer services.

Approximately how much did you receive, and how much do you think you properly ought to have received?

Once received a duplicated 'Delay Repay' RTV from Northern. Just sent the second one back to them with a covering note.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Approximately how much did you receive, and how much do you think you properly ought to have received?

Was paid a 2 hour claim for £160ish, should have been a 30 minute claim for £40ish. Seemed a bit much to keep (or donate to charity on their behalf) really.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Apr 2026 ==

Once received a duplicated 'Delay Repay' RTV from Northern. Just sent the second one back to them with a covering note.

I'd probably just not spend the second one in that case rather than waste the stamp. They have an expiry date so it wouldn't be left clogging company accounts forever which would be a pain

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Apr 2026 ==

That would depend on if the underpayments and incorrect refusals are more or less than the overpayments!

I must admit I'd have a whole lot more sympathy to TOCs who are making overpayments if their systems weren't also denying the passenger compensation they're entitled to...

There is that, but I don't think I've had an outright refusal for a very long time. I have had to appeal them but the appeals have always succeeded. If it was closer to balancing I'd probably be happier to keep it

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I'd probably just not spend the second one in that case rather than waste the stamp.

What stamp?

 

[redreni]

Has it ever been decided if the passenger has an obligation to report delay repay overpayments?

I'm unsure, but if there were such an obligation then it would only apply to situations where the claimant was aware he had received an overpayment. Unless somebody posted online somewhere (e.g. here) about it, it would presumably be almost impossible to prove they were aware.

 

[greatkingrat]

It is also worth noting that the published Delay Repay amounts are the *minimum* you are entitled to. There is nothing stopping a TOC from deciding someone has been sufficiently inconvenienced to justify a higher payment. Therefore there is no reason for the passenger to query whatever amount was paid (unless it is obviously ridiculous, like being paid hundreds of pounds for a £3 ticket)

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is also worth noting that the published Delay Repay amounts are the *minimum* you are entitled to. There is nothing stopping a TOC from deciding someone has been sufficiently inconvenienced to justify a higher payment. Therefore there is no reason for the passenger to query whatever amount was paid (unless it is obviously ridiculous, like being paid hundreds of pounds for a £3 ticket)

They can, but the wording from that DR provider is always very clear in saying "you were delayed for N minutes and therefore..." so it is very clear that it is an error and not a goodwill provision of a higher amount.

It might be more reasonable for someone who doesn't understand the system to keep it, but because I understand the system and the difference between how a goodwill payment and an error would look, I think it would be getting remarkably close to "theft by finding" if I didn't at least bring it to their attention. I've done this before with another TOC and they ignored me so I donated the overpayment to charity (it was also a much smaller sum), but in this case TPE clearly have made a means to repay it so I have done so accordingly.

 

[redreni]

I've done this before with another TOC and they ignored me so I donated the overpayment to charity (it was also a much smaller sum), but in this case TPE clearly have made a means to repay it so I have done so accordingly.

Might as well withdraw the money from the bank as cash, burn it and let them know you've done so.

The reason being, if paying that money back to a TOC reduces the net subsidy the railway receives from the government, that is tantamount to paying the money to HM Treasury. As HM Treasury is (through the Bank of England, which it owns) an issuer of a sovereign fiat currency, giving money back to them serves no real purpose other than reducing the money supply in the economy and thereby helping to control inflation. Which can be achieved equally well by burning cash.

 

[Starmill]

I once received an incorrect transfer, it was something like £3 more than I was entitled to, and I was specifically advised over email that I was welcome to keep the whole amount. It's one of those 'your mileage may vary' things.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I once received an incorrect transfer, it was something like £3 more than I was entitled to, and I was specifically advised over email that I was welcome to keep the whole amount. It's one of those 'your mileage may vary' things.

It might be that TPE as a DfT TOC are a bit more penny pinching, but I can see a huge difference between £3 and £120 in how worthwhile it is reclaiming the amount overpaid. To be honest I wouldn't think reporting an overpayment of £3 really worth my time nor worth that of the company, overall the processing of a support case for that would probably cost more than £3.

The one case where I would is HMRC as they have a habit of getting finickity over tiny amounts. OK, the railway does too, but mostly only when you've evaded a fare.

 

[Harratt4]

Presumably, if a TOC wrote to you to say they had made a simple error, and to request an over payment back, you would be entitled to deduct an administration fee, of your choosing, calculated to reflect the time and costs involved in investigating the matter, from the amount owed.

I hear that often administration fees charged where someone has made a genuine mistake can dwarf the amount actually originally owed. I forget now where I have seen such practices…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2026 ==

Of course I applaud the honesty of those doing the right thing and paying back over payments, and do not wish to detract from their honourable honesty. I was replying to the questions about whether a TOC could proactively write to customers overpaid and demand it back.

 

[Starmill]

If any company wrote to me with a clear cut case of payment error, and I had verified it wasn't an attempt at fraud, I would probably just pay up without any further correspondence on the matter. I probably wouldn't treat the railway any differently. The chances of that happening are very very small though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If any company wrote to me with a clear cut case of payment error, and I had verified it wasn't an attempt at fraud, I would probably just pay up without any further correspondence on the matter. I probably wouldn't treat the railway any differently.

Same. Though I doubt SWR (I think it was them, it's the FirstGroup common DR processing site that has the problem, TPE still seem to use it under contract) will ask for their three quid (or whatever it was) back and it's too small an amount for me to waste time contacting them over it, and as I said it probably would cost them more to process the support case (I've often heard it quoted that a business helpdesk case costs £5-10 to process even if a simple one when everything is taken into account). But if they do they can have it.

The chances of that happening are very very small though.

Agreed.

 

[londonbridge]

Don’t think I’ve ever had an overpayment of delay repay but I generally tend to repay something I receive when I’m not entitled to it. Examples include the supermarket kiosk where after leaving the shop I realised the cashier had given me three books of stamps instead of the two I’d asked for, so I went back and returned one of them. Another was an online order for some vinyl, when I received it there were two copies inside the package. Tempting as it was to keep the second one and sell it on, I used the returns label to send it back, including a covering letter explaining what had happened, few days later I got an email thanking me for being honest.

Admittedly though if it’s a minuscule amount that most likely wouldn’t be missed, say £2 extra in my change from a shop, then I probably wouldn’t say anything.

 

[Thames99]

Overpayments have not happened to me, but I think I'd be inclined to hang on to one if it happened. There have been a number of occasions where I could have claimed smallish amounts for delayed journeys but it didn't seem worth the bother of doing so. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[Llanigraham]

Everytime I claimed delay repay from Avanti on my journeys to London I was overpaid, generally by them rounding the amount of vouchers up to the nearest £5 or sometimes £10. I just presumed it was "the system" as I am sure do many other members of the general public.

 

[redreni]

Given all the Delay Repay schemes specify that compensation is limited to the amount paid, is it an overpayment if you pay £40 for a ticket but because of a 10% cashback promotion, £4 of that appears as a credit on your credit card statement before you have paid your credit card bill. Consequently, you only ever pay £36 for the ticket. You receive £40 compensation from the TOC that delayed you. So the railway, in conjunction with the credit card company, has paid you £4 to make the journey. Do you owe them the £4 back?

 

[MrJeeves]

Given all the Delay Repay schemes specify that compensation is limited to the amount paid, is it an overpayment if you pay £40 for a ticket but because of a 10% cashback promotion

I think it's quite clear that's not the case.